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| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 00:33 #68824 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
Max, Give us a break! Simsig is for persons interested in running a simulated Signalling Control Centre without extras! (FULL STOP)! Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Hpotter, Noisynoel, DriverCurran, John, GoochyB, andyb0607, TimTamToe, Temple Meads, delticfan, crompton, LucasLCC, slatteryc |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 00:38 #68825 | |
JamesN
1587 posts 
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Quote:I'm just as dedicated as the rest of you to making SimSig a more user-friendly game/sim, particularly from the POV of the man-in-the-street sitting down to play it for the first timeAre you though? You profess to speak for the newcomers, but I've yet to encounter anyone who has apparently struggled as much as you did and 4 years later still do. I'm no longer entirely sure you want to learn - from macros to multicoloured sticky notes and now totally autonomous demo mode every long winded stubborn rant has been seeking to avoid learning and extend the click-lifespan of your mouse. Literally 1000s of newcomers over the past 15 years have had no problems with learning, afterall that's part of the challenge. If you want to just watch SimSig- join a MP session, or perhaps type SimSig into YouTube, I'm sure some (unofficial) video tutorials were done at some point. Perhaps, with a willing volunteer you may even persuade people to get some new ones made. Im sure there are people in your timezone willing to sit down with you and help you - I myself offered several times in the past few years and was either rebuffed or ignored totally. Further Automation isn't a viable solution. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: delticfan, DriverCurran, TimTamToe, GoochyB, John, crompton |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 07:01 #68833 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
I enjoy playing SimSig very much in its present form but there are always ways to improve it. I thought my suggestions were well thought out and matured slightly in the later posts, thanks to everyone's feedback, but no thanks to the previous two posters. I've listed several reasons why I consider autonomous demo mode as JamesN calls it beneficial, so won't repeat them here, but your calling it a long winded stubborn rant merely displays your short attention span. BarryM doesn't even bother to study any details of my proposals so I seldom expect any enlightenment from him nor from those who thank him for his posts (same old names as you will notice). I'd like to join a multisession but it's time, not people, that are not on my side. No offence intended. Quote: Literally 1000s of newcomers over the past 15 years have had no problems with learning Please cite a reference for these statistics. How can you be sure they are still bothering with the sim? On the other hand I believe there are many out there who must see the advantages of my proposal, so it's all there for future consideration. I believe any efforts made to incorporate it into a future version of SimSig are well and truly justifiable. Last edited: 05/02/2015 at 07:07 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 07:25 #68834 | |
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kbarber
1719 posts |
" said:
No malicious intent, just need. I understand the timetable for the section London Bridge - Charing Cross used to incorporate 66 minutes worth of trains (according to the capabilities of the layout) in every hour during the peak, relying on the skill of signalmen and drivers to make it (sort-of) work as best they could. The reason for doing that was simply that they needed that many trains to handle the number of passengers trying to travel. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 09:12 #68838 | |
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uboat
219 posts |
if some people want to watch a demo go to http://www.sussextrains.co.uk/ and click on demo and you can watch trains all day. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 09:32 #68839 | |
Dick
387 posts |
I guess at the end of the day there are 2 types of people, those that will read the instruction manual from cover to cover before touching anything and those that start tinkering with whatever it is to find out how it works only reading the manual if after hours of tinkering they can't find out how to do something. I belong in the second category, I suspect Max belongs in the first category. I'm a great believer that discovering how something works is (a) more satisfying and (b) leads to a greater understanding of how it works. When I first starting playing Simsig many years ago, much of the enjoyment was the challenge of actually working out what I was supposed to do. Just my tuppence worth. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 09:39 #68840 | |
ozrail
197 posts |
My advice Maxand is to lay off the coffee for a little while.
Last edited: 05/02/2015 at 09:41 by ozrail Log in to reply The following user said thank you: headshot119 |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 09:53 #68841 | |
Steamer
3946 posts |
" said:I enjoy playing SimSig very much in its present form but there are always ways to improve it.Do you though? In the above you said you hated yourself and found it demoralizing. So either (a) switch off, as it's clearly bad for your health, (b) accept that that's the way it works and stop worrying or (c) stop exaggerating. Quote: I've listed several reasons why I consider autonomous demo mode as JamesN calls it beneficial, so won't repeat them here, but your calling it a long winded stubborn rant merely displays your short attention span. You may consider it useful, but you've ignored the fact that several people have told you it's impractical. Both because what you're asking for is beyond the current ARS code, but also because of the non-trivial task of adding ARS and the fact that some layouts don't lend themselves to it. I remember someone asking why West Hampstead didn't have ARS when the Victoria sims did (none of them have it in real life, but both a large complex areas), Geoff replied that he'd considered it for West Hampstead but the layout was too unsuitable- see here. I think the majority of users would prefer to see more simulations of all shapes and sizes than less simulations because the developers are too busy trying to get ARS to work properly on a layout that's unsuited to it. As developers have already made a concious decision to include ARS or not, I think it's reasonable to assume that they won't all change their minds. Long winded? Let's face it, we could trim the first post to about a third of its size and not lose any relevant information to the suggestion. Quote: I'd like to join a multisession but it's time, not people, that are not on my side. No offence intended.You're usually online during our morning and early afternoon. There's sometimes a game going during those times on a weekend, and anyway there are quite a few Australian or New Zealand users on here. Quote: On the other hand I believe there are many out there who must see the advantages of my proposal, so it's all there for future consideration.As you've asked James to cite proof for his opinion, may I do the same? It has to be said, you're the only person who gets themselves worked up because a reversing point isn't explicit or a colour isn't just so. Everyone else seems to figure it out for themselves. Try doing it this way, you'll find it much more satisfying in the long run and you'll develop an understanding and appreciation of the software. Then, when you come to a new simulation, you won't need things spelling out to you, because it'll have become easy. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 05/02/2015 at 11:42 by Steamer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: TimTamToe |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 09:57 #68842 | |
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delticfan
476 posts |
I do notice with Maxand (and probably a few others on here) that he tends to delve into really technical aspects of the sims that I, and probably others, get a little confused by. I'm in my 60s and tend to enjoy the sims I have purely for what they represent - areas that are familiar to me and that I can picture whilst playing without getting bogged down in more technical items. I have a background as platform staff at New St (one of my favourite sims) and am familiar with many railway terms, but if I run into a snag I post on here or check the manual, knowing that I will be pointed in the right direction to solve the problem. Thanks to all who have added to my overall enjoyment. Mal. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 11:19 #68843 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
" said:I'd like to join a multisession but it's time, not people, that are not on my side.I don't understand this as lots of people in the UK multiplay at various times during the day and night, on top of this there are both American and Australian contingents on here who multiplay in times suitable to their time zone Perhaps asking if anyone is available to host at a time appropriate to where you live instead of just assuming that there isn't anyone else in your time zone might be a start I know for a fact that both the American & Australian contingent host sims. Noisynoel Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 11:22 #68844 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
" said:" said:I would be more than happy to host a sim for Max (and indeed anyone else down under) during the European daytime. I'm off work on sick leave so I have plenty of spare time during the day.I'd like to join a multisession but it's time, not people, that are not on my side.I don't understand this as lots of people in the UK multiplay at various times during the day and night, on top of this there are both American and Australian contingents on here who multiplay in times suitable to their time zone Perhaps asking if anyone is available to host at a time appropriate to where you live instead of just assuming that there isn't anyone else in your time zone might be a start I know for a fact that both the American & Australian contingent host sims. Kev Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 11:28 #68845 | |
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peterb
452 posts |
" said:On the other hand I believe there are many out there who must see the advantages of my proposal, so it's all there for future consideration. I believe any efforts made to incorporate it into a future version of SimSig are well and truly justifiable.I'm sure you would unashamedly say the same for all of your other dozens of threads in "features wish list". You're utterly deluded. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 12:13 #68848 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Maybe I'm a little too computer-literate than I should be to contribute to this forum and can prima facie reduce some mountains to molehills. However, one can never persuade an ostrich to change its mind.
Last edited: 05/02/2015 at 12:23 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 12:28 #68850 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
maxand, I appreciate some of your suggestions and I often see where you're coming from. You do (sometimes unintentionally!) highlight certain minor issues that could be seen to. But most of the time they just seem like too much work for too little gain. I think this is by far the most work for the least gain I've seen in any of your suggestions! I honestly don't see too many people using the demo mode. True, a new sim can be a bit daunting, and if the manual isn't well-written some parts of it may be confusing. But I think I speak for most people on here when I say that these hurdles are usually surpassable without having to watch a demo video... What would be MUCH nicer IMHO is the ability to record games. This would probably require less effort than implementing an autonomous demo player, would work on all (loader) sims (correct me if I'm wrong, again I don't know much about the architecture of SimSig!), and would trivially solve the problem of providing demos whilst also providing a useful archive for bug reporting and simply sharing particularly spectacular games. Thoughts? Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 13:18 #68854 | |
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clive
2756 posts |
" said:I really can't make up my mind about Max. Is he for real or just a clever troll winding everybody up?I'm not sure, but some of the things he suggests actually make sense, and one or two have made their way into the core code. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 13:22 #68855 | |
bfcmik
99 posts |
" said:However, I also think it's unfair on newcomers to a particular sim to try to piece it all together, particularly the locations and routing methods of some timing and reversing points that aren't well explained at all either in the sim manual or on the forum. Thus I feel a shorter demo TT for each, clearly marked as such, allowing ARS to be fully turned on, would be much more helpful.The first time, or even few times, I play a Sim I set the speed to it's lowest setting and I don't care about the score. I use it as a learning experience. Sort of like being in the box with an experienced signaller who shows you how to do it and what could go where if needed. I want the Sim to be realistic (though I often wish it wasn't when I do something that blocks a train that needed another route) and I want to know that what I see is exactly what the real life signaller may have seen! I can buy toy games that 'represent' an area and almost always ensure I come away with a pat on the back. I don't though because that isn't what I want, nor expect, from life. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 13:27 #68856 | |
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clive
2756 posts |
" said:Someone did actually start writing a recorder. Basically it connected to a sim as a client and simply recorded the messages that got sent to the client (as a result, it would work on most exes as well, barring a few old ones that predate a rewrite of the protocol). Then it did playback by acting as the server and sending the same messages. In principle it could playback at different speeds, be able to pause when certain things happened (e.g. signal X changed aspect), and so on. I don't know what happened to it or if the author (I forget who it was) is still around. If (s)he's not, perhaps someone else would like to start from scratch - I can provide the technical information required. Max, do I see you volunteering? Last edited: 05/02/2015 at 13:27 by clive Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 13:34 #68858 | |
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RainbowNines
272 posts |
Maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, but the majority of folk that come along and pick up SimSig will be familiar enough with computing to know that RTFM is just about imperative if you want to learn a programme, as is working through a few times. Therefore, maxand, I'm not sure you do represent the "man on the street" any more. I started playing a similar number of years ago - my absolute favourite sim/timetable now is Carlisle 79-80, which I imagine ranks up there with the most difficult out there. That you demand an auto SimSig suggests youve not really grasped the concept of what a simulation is. I learned through repetition and familiarity. When I encounter something I find difficult I don't demand it's made easier, I learn how to deal with it. Level Crossing frequently forgotten? I train myself to go back to the crossing after every (eg) third action I take. Trains frequently routed on different lines? A big sticky saying CHECK ROUTE near the signals soon solves that. I will balance this all by saying there's no wrong way of playing SimSig - except this suggestion where you wouldnt really get to play at all. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 13:36 #68859 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:" said:Perhaps even easier to do now Clive that Simsig has the interface gateway?Someone did actually start writing a recorder. Basically it connected to a sim as a client and simply recorded the messages that got sent to the client (as a result, it would work on most exes as well, barring a few old ones that predate a rewrite of the protocol). Then it did playback by acting as the server and sending the same messages. In principle it could playback at different speeds, be able to pause when certain things happened (e.g. signal X changed aspect), and so on. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 14:05 #68860 | |
Peter Bennet
5375 posts |
I'm thinking that this topic has really run its course and has degenerated a bit: so while I'll not lock it yet that's an option that's a probability if hostilities continue. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: BarryM |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 15:56 #68867 | |
Temple Meads
307 posts |
Max, I can see where you're coming from with most of your suggestions, but from my point of view, taking into account SimSig's position as a simulation, not a game (yes, this point is continually bought up, but it's a key one), I'd much prefer to see new simulations, and development of things such as a more realistic phone call system, particularly as the best way to learn about SimSig is just to get stuck in and get very, very, confused :lol: Username TIM in multiplayer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: delticfan |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 16:41 #68870 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
" said:" said:Ah, that's interesting. Sounds like good fun — I've been wondering about the possibility of implementing something involving SimSig's network protocol for a while, but couldn't find any documentation on it so I assumed it was secret.Someone did actually start writing a recorder. Basically it connected to a sim as a client and simply recorded the messages that got sent to the client (as a result, it would work on most exes as well, barring a few old ones that predate a rewrite of the protocol). Then it did playback by acting as the server and sending the same messages. In principle it could playback at different speeds, be able to pause when certain things happened (e.g. signal X changed aspect), and so on. (My friend was wondering how hard it would be to build a mock-up of a panel or part of a panel, and connect it to SimSig as a client... would be a fun project to work on!) Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 17:06 #68872 | |
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sorabain
72 posts |
" said:" said:kinda like a game of snooker thenA wise man in Brstol panel once said that the railway was very much like a game of chess, in that you can get snookered quite easily. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 20:50 #68887 | |
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clive
2756 posts |
" said:It wouldn't be that hard to reverse engineer. But what I actually need is enough time to write it up. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 20:51 #68889 | |
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clive
2756 posts |
" said:" said:I don't think the interface gateway has enough power.Perhaps even easier to do now Clive that Simsig has the interface gateway? Log in to reply |