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WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 17:08 #71121 | |
GeoffM
6344 posts |
" said:It was explained to me elsewhere that the 1960's Panels were being replaced ahead of many century old mechanical frames because parts were no longer available to maintain the panels and they had become unreliable. Mechanical frames on the other hand could be repaired with basic tools.I'd be interested in this source - elsewhere you mention a forum: is that the source? Regardless, let's see. King's Cross, 1970s panel IIRC, just recently had a whole bunch of tiles replaced to add in the new Thameslink connections. Victoria, not so many years ago, remodelled Crystal Palace. Wimbledon had changes for the West London line. In fact the only type of panel where I can't think of a major alteration (requiring plenty of those mythical spare parts) are the Western turn'n'push - but am happy to be corrected on that. Lots of boxes have had buttons and lamps replaced, the latter with LEDs. Of course, you can still get filament lamps but why bother? Also logically mechanical boxes aren't exactly a priority to replace since very few remain on main lines - if any, depending on your definition of "main line". SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 17:49 #71122 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:" said:Newport had a fair amount of alterations over the years involving new tiles. (Although admittedly probably not needing many spare parts.)It was explained to me elsewhere that the 1960's Panels were being replaced ahead of many century old mechanical frames because parts were no longer available to maintain the panels and they had become unreliable. Mechanical frames on the other hand could be repaired with basic tools.I'd be interested in this source - elsewhere you mention a forum: is that the source? Removal of the old goods yard at Newport station. Rationalization of Gaer Junciton. Although in other places they simply stuck over the old tiles. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 15/04/2015 at 17:49 by headshot119 Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 17:50 #71123 | |
JamesN
1591 posts |
" said:" said:Recent(ish) modifications to Western panels include the works to uprate the goods lines north of Oxford station in 2010ish; alterations at Swindon to upgrade Rushey Platt UGL into a passenger line, plus the abolition of the parcels platform and opening of platform 4; Bristol saw several changes to the station area in the early 200s IIRC, plus the addition of the new platform at Bristol Parkway and works at Filton; Newport had some layout changes around the station in its later years...It was explained to me elsewhere that the 1960's Panels were being replaced ahead of many century old mechanical frames because parts were no longer available to maintain the panels and they had become unreliable. Mechanical frames on the other hand could be repaired with basic tools.I'd be interested in this source - elsewhere you mention a forum: is that the source? Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 18:32 #71124 | |
Danny252
1461 posts |
More recent work at Swindon saw alterations in connection with the doubling of the Kemble Line, which involved several intermediate stages and finally a new fringe put in when the line went over to the TVSC. I also believe that Swindon is now on at least the third set of train describers (having started with mechanical ones!), showing how easily components are replaced. If I remember correctly, I think the Swindon Panel Society have also said it's possible to get new tiles made if required (although they're looking to use tiles from other panels where possible, as it's cheaper, naturally). Last edited: 15/04/2015 at 18:34 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 18:35 #71125 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:More recent work at Swindon saw alterations in connection with the doubling of the Kemble Line, which involved several intermediate stages and finally a new fringe put in when the line went over to the TVSC. I also believe that Swindon is now on at least the third set of train describers (having started with mechanical ones!), showing how easily components are replaced.There's been some new tiles made recently for Westbury. Photos on the facebook group appeared a few weeks back. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 18:44 #71126 | |
Muzer
718 posts |
" said:" said:I think anyone would struggle to come up with a definition of "main line" that would exclude StockportIt was explained to me elsewhere that the 1960's Panels were being replaced ahead of many century old mechanical frames because parts were no longer available to maintain the panels and they had become unreliable. Mechanical frames on the other hand could be repaired with basic tools.I'd be interested in this source - elsewhere you mention a forum: is that the source? Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 19:01 #71128 | |
Steamer
3958 posts |
" said:" said:That depends on your definition of mechanical!" said:I think anyone would struggle to come up with a definition of "main line" that would exclude Stockport ;)It was explained to me elsewhere that the 1960's Panels were being replaced ahead of many century old mechanical frames because parts were no longer available to maintain the panels and they had become unreliable. Mechanical frames on the other hand could be repaired with basic tools.I'd be interested in this source - elsewhere you mention a forum: is that the source? (For anyone who doesn't know, the boxes at Stockport further another examples of lever frames controlling colour lights and motor-worked points) "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 15/04/2015 at 19:01 by Steamer Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 20:30 #71133 | |
GeoffM
6344 posts |
" said:" said:Per Steamer - I was talking about mechanical boxes rather than electromechanical.Also logically mechanical boxes aren't exactly a priority to replace since very few remain on main lines - if any, depending on your definition of "main line".I think anyone would struggle to come up with a definition of "main line" that would exclude Stockport ;) SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 22:25 #71144 | |
Muzer
718 posts |
Ah, to be fair, Jersey_Mike did say "mechanical frames", which I think Stockport would definitely fall into. I do concede that you (GeoffM) did say mechanical boxes though.
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WCML Resignalling film (1974) 15/04/2015 at 22:33 #71145 | |
clive
2766 posts |
" said:And it works the other way round as well: A number of relay interlockings have been replaced by computer-based ones, while still being controlled from the original signalling panel.Not just replaced: the right hand section of Cambridge PSB panel (roughly from Bannolds LX northwards) has been controlled by three SSIs since it was installed. (That section also has *huge* tiles covering several lines/TCs/signals.) Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 16/04/2015 at 03:54 #71151 | |
Firefly
521 posts |
This signalling panel was built around 2001 and has only ever been connected to electronic interlockings. In fact many panels were built after VDU systems were introduced in the late 80's. FF Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 16/04/2015 at 08:04 by Firefly Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 16/04/2015 at 08:16 #71153 | |
kbarber
1723 posts |
" said:I was under the impression that most of the Mini CRTs have been replaced yonks ago, using the property that these systems appear to have been designed with foresight in an at least somewhat modular manner, so all the CRT modules at some point were replaced with more modern things (I don't recall what, presumably LEDs). Correct me if I'm wrong though. Certainly replaced a long time ago. I recall the preparations for Barking when I was Station Supervisor there (1981 - 3). Incidentally, the LTS Section's use of four-number headcodes allowed 7-segment LED displays to be specified, which I imagine made the whole thing enormously simpler. Hackney Downs (which had never had CRTs but back-projected stencil images using local codes specific to the GE suburban areas) had been done well before I arrived at Enfield as Station Manager (1985); I believe the whole GE suburban area was done at the same time. The describers from Liverpool Street to Shenfield dated back to the 1949 resignalling so they'd done their bit. I have an idea they were pretty much the first fully-automatic describer system working through a large number of boxes (I'm told there was such a sytem between Haymarket, Princes St and Waverley in the late 1930s but its scope and capability was far less). The replacement displays were dot-matrix LEDs. The GE job was a computerised system which allowed (rather limited) displays of train running information for station staff and also allowed signalmen to interrogate the system for trains in other boxes. I have an idea this was pretty typical; the original driving system was invariably based on relays or multiselectors, involved huge amounts of wiring and (I suspect) would have been a nightmare to maintain. The WR, as usual, had gone its own way with displays being by means of a light shining through stencil cut-outs in a rotating drum and descriptions being set up with a telephone dial. Each drum had 10 positions plus a 'null' position, so only a limited range of letters could be available. There were two drums in each unit (which was the same size as a standard domino tile), so two units were needed for each description. Uniquely, the describers were placed on a vertical panel behind the near-horizontal operation and indication panel and built to the same size, with an exact copy of the track layout at the same 'scale'. I understand the units themselves were the store for train description data, with each drum sending the appropriate number of pulses to the corresponding drum in the next description as it returned to its null position (all the others stored descriptions in relays or selectors that selected the characters to display). I have an idea the early replacements also stored descriptions in the display units so they could more-or-less be replaced individually without disturbing the panel. I also have an idea the replacements didn't last that long, giving way in their turn to computerised systems with a VDU display of descriptions over a whole signalman's control area snd beyond. Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 17:29 #71176 | |
Jersey_Mike
250 posts |
Aside from the NYC Subway, almost all large panel displays in North America have been replaced by video display walls. :dry: Much like the big PSB's, they've become a status object for management. https://www.acm.jhu.edu//~sthurmovik/Railpics/13-05-11_SEPTA_CONTROL/SEPTA_1234-Control-Room-RRD-Big-Board-R1-R3-R8.html Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 18:18 #71178 | |
Muzer
718 posts |
I do like the idea of large video walls. Seems like it would give a much better overview of events. I'm assuming (in our IECC and IECC-like setups) we don't have anything similar, except maybe something like SimSig's overview screen which doesn't have much in the way of detail/clarity?
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WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 18:35 #71179 | |
JamesN
1591 posts |
TVSC has large TV screens above the workstations which combine to show an overview going all the way round the room
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WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 18:41 #71180 | |
Muzer
718 posts |
Ah, OK. whenever I've seen pictures of workstations I've never noticed anything like that, but presumably either my memory is faulty or the pictures I've seen have just been taken at angles where you can't see it...
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WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 19:53 #71182 | |
Steamer
3958 posts |
Rugby has one: From Network Rail's website "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 17/04/2015 at 19:54 by Steamer Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 20:59 #71184 | |
GeoffM
6344 posts |
" said:Aside from the NYC Subway, almost all large panel displays in North America have been replaced by video display walls. :dry:BNSF's just shows stats, bar graphs, weather, news, and other fiction. " said: I do like the idea of large video walls. Seems like it would give a much better overview of events. I'm assuming (in our IECC and IECC-like setups) we don't have anything similar, except maybe something like SimSig's overview screen which doesn't have much in the way of detail/clarity?Aside from some video walls as already noted, I think every VDU signaller has access to CCF which shows a graphical display of a large selection of areas - same sort of information as on Open Train Times maps - funnily enough because the data tends to come from the same source! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 21:02 #71185 | |
Firefly
521 posts |
Colchester MCS Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 17/04/2015 at 21:02 by Firefly Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 22:11 #71187 | |
Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Aside from some video walls as already noted, I think every VDU signaller has access to CCF which shows a graphical display of a large selection of areas - same sort of information as on Open Train Times maps - funnily enough because the data tends to come from the same source!Would non-VDU signallers have access to such on the computers they often have for use with TOPS, etc? Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 22:14 #71188 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:" said:Some not all.Aside from some video walls as already noted, I think every VDU signaller has access to CCF which shows a graphical display of a large selection of areas - same sort of information as on Open Train Times maps - funnily enough because the data tends to come from the same source!Would non-VDU signallers have access to such on the computers they often have for use with TOPS, etc? Manchester SC does have CCF access, Croes Newydd on the other hand doesn't. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 22:33 #71189 | |
belly buster
368 posts |
" said:I do like the idea of large video walls. Seems like it would give a much better overview of events. I'm assuming (in our IECC and IECC-like setups) we don't have anything similar, except maybe something like SimSig's overview screen which doesn't have much in the way of detail/clarity?This is National Grid's control room at a sort-of-secret location in Wokingham, which I have been fortunate enough to visit. The video wall is made up of a series of back-projected video "cubes" that form a single display with virtually invisible gaps between the joins. Pretty impressive. The schematic shows the entire country's high-voltage network (north Scotland is on the far left and the south coast is on the far right). Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Hawk777 |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 17/04/2015 at 22:56 #71190 | |
Muzer
718 posts |
...wow, now THAT'S cool. Little offtopic, but thanks for sharing.
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WCML Resignalling film (1974) 18/04/2015 at 07:05 #71197 | |
Ron_J
330 posts |
It looks certainly looks impressive for visitors but is it actually readable and useful to the controllers? Network Rail Scotland and the Edinburgh Trams control rooms both have similar video wall overviews, albeit on a much smaller scale. Log in to reply |
WCML Resignalling film (1974) 18/04/2015 at 17:03 #71201 | |
madaboutrains
313 posts |
I need to go back the the NGCR
RIP Feltham Panel 1 Log in to reply |