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| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 08:41 #72235 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
Unlike many other sims, TORR in Derby is unchecked by default, at least at Beginner standard. Since TORR makes all sims easier to play, there should be some consistency about this. I suggest TORR be ON by default at least at beginner and Standard level of all sims that contain this feature, otherwise if will be easy to overlook by beginner players, especially those unfamiliar with TORR. As far as I know there is no way to turn TORR on once a sim has begun - the only way is to start a new sim. On the subject of bugs, I note that one has the option of commencing the default TT at 0445. If one does this and sets Save Timetable to 10 mins, the first save (at 0450) does not occur. The first automatic save takes place at 0500, after which saves occur normally every 10 mins. Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 08:58 #72236 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
" said:Unlike many other sims, TORR in Derby is unchecked by default, at least at Beginner standard.Disagree - Derby has it correct, the default TORR setting matches the real panel. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: andyb0607 |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 09:42 #72237 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
Since when does the difference between 04:45 and 04:50 = 10 minutes?
Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 10:13 #72239 | |
Steamer
3985 posts |
" said:Since when does the difference between 04:45 and 04:50 = 10 minutes?By that logic, the next snapshot should be taken at 04:55, not 05:00. The same thing happens when loading saves, load at 12:11 and a snapshot isn't taken until 12:30. It should either be taken at 12:20 (personal preference) or 12:21. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 12:22 #72240 | |
pedroathome
916 posts |
Maxand, if you have got a little way through a TT and decide that you want to turn TORR either ON or OFF, you can change this in the save file. If you change the SavedFileName.ssg into a .zip file, and open the xml file within, Line 3 allows you to change these options <TORR>True</TORR> To Turn off, change to FALSE, to turn on, change to TRUE. When done, re zip the file and change back to a .ssg format. Then you can play as per normal. Hope this makes sense. Done this on several save files, never had an issue yet James Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 12:31 #72241 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
The Derby manual does not make it clear that TORR is OFF in real life, so I have added an explanation in the manual. Thanks pedroathome for explaining how to turn TORR on/off after a sim has started. I hope this doesn't contravene the holy rule that no assistance should be given to modifying code - good heavens, we don't want to make it any easier for them - but is very welcome nonetheless. Last edited: 15/05/2015 at 12:32 by maxand Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 12:38 #72242 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:The Derby manual does not make it clear that TORR is OFF in real life, so I have added an explanation in the manual.I'm not aware of any Sim Developer that adds a TORR "OFF" option where the panel is fully TORRed (the idea is to make thing simpler not more difficult than reality). So I suggest that if there is a TORR option it means that the reality is there is no TORR (at least in some part of the panel). Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 12:41 #72243 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:Maxand, if you have got a little way through a TT and decide that you want to turn TORR either ON or OFF, you can change this in the save file.Can't test myself at the moment but is the "True"/"False" case sensitive: I'd hate to see Max get in a tangle because you mis-instructed him. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 12:43 #72244 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts |
" said:The Derby manual does not make it clear that TORR is OFF in real life, so I have added an explanation in the manual." said: Leaving TORR off increases the difficulty but also increases the realism. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 12:44 #72245 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Good point, Peter. My understanding is that, unlike HTML, all parts of an XML document are case-sensitive. If in doubt, follow the existing case.
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| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 13:21 #72247 | |
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pedroathome
916 posts |
" said:" said:I would argue that the TORR True / False is not case sensitive, but cannot really confirm. I have only used it all in caps.Maxand, if you have got a little way through a TT and decide that you want to turn TORR either ON or OFF, you can change this in the save file.Can't test myself at the moment but is the "True"/"False" case sensitive: I'd hate to see Max get in a tangle because you mis-instructed him. Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 14:25 #72250 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:" said:I'm struggling to see why it would be a case for argument: surely it's one of fact: either the case matters or it does not!" said:I would argue that the TORR True / False is not case sensitive, but cannot really confirm. I have only used it all in caps.Maxand, if you have got a little way through a TT and decide that you want to turn TORR either ON or OFF, you can change this in the save file.Can't test myself at the moment but is the "True"/"False" case sensitive: I'd hate to see Max get in a tangle because you mis-instructed him. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Last edited: 15/05/2015 at 14:26 by Peter Bennet Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 14:51 #72251 | |
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pedroathome
916 posts |
" said:" said:I would agree there. Just saying it that way as that is the only way in which I have changed this" said:I'm struggling to see why it would be a case for argument: surely it's one of fact: either the case matters or it does not!" said:I would argue that the TORR True / False is not case sensitive, but cannot really confirm. I have only used it all in caps.Maxand, if you have got a little way through a TT and decide that you want to turn TORR either ON or OFF, you can change this in the save file.Can't test myself at the moment but is the "True"/"False" case sensitive: I'd hate to see Max get in a tangle because you mis-instructed him. Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 15:19 #72252 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts 
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" said:Good point, Peter. My understanding is that, unlike HTML, all parts of an XML document are case-sensitive. If in doubt, follow the existing case.XML tags are case sensitive but the data (in this case true/false or case variants thereof) is entirely up to the user/producer of such data. I looked at the SimSig code and it defers the interpretation of the value to Delphi libraries. So I don't know for sure whether it's case sensitive or not, other than what people report here by testing it! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 15:19 #72253 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
I've no objections to people discussing the XML editing on the forum, but as Maxand has now added this "work around" to the wiki I'm more concerned. The average user sees the wiki as the manual, there's a high probability that someone who doesn't know what they are doing will break a save file by following this instructions and making a mistake. It should be removed from the Wiki, or a clear warning put with it, personally I prefer the former. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 15:25 #72255 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
" said:I've no objections to people discussing the XML editing on the forum, but as Maxand has now added this "work around" to the wiki I'm more concerned.Seconded. Workaround are fine as a discussion between parties on the forum. They should not be advertised to the outside world in the context of an official how-to document. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: headshot119 |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 15:30 #72257 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:" said:Thirded, motion carried, removed from the Wiki.I've no objections to people discussing the XML editing on the forum, but as Maxand has now added this "work around" to the wiki I'm more concerned.Seconded. Workaround are fine as a discussion between parties on the forum. They should not be advertised to the outside world in the context of an official how-to document. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: pedroathome |
| TORR should be on by default 15/05/2015 at 15:34 #72258 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
God damn it Ben, where was the show of hands! :doh [/humour] On a more serious note I think it's for the best. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 16/05/2015 at 00:48 #72271 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
So, what began as a useful tip for those intelligent enough to make it to the Wiki has now sunk back into the mud of the forum. Quote: The average user sees the wiki as the manual, there's a high probability that someone who doesn't know what they are doing will break a save fileThe unwritten law here is, if you're going to muck around with any file in this way, create an extra copy of it and store it away somewhere securely, e.g., its own folder, before beginning to experiment with it. Anyone who does not know how to do this should not be attempting any modifications. Last edited: 16/05/2015 at 00:55 by maxand Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 16/05/2015 at 00:59 #72273 | |
postal
5265 posts |
" said:So, what began as a useful tip for those intelligent enough to make it to the Wiki has now sunk back into the mud of the forum.Max You are assuming that everyone is as intelligent as you are. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 16/05/2015 at 06:22 #72278 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
Also the Wiki is not intended to be a stream of consciousness. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 16/05/2015 at 06:50 #72279 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:MaxWhat an unwarranted assumption that turned out to be (sigh). Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 16/05/2015 at 10:07 #72286 | |
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RainbowNines
272 posts |
" said:So, what began as a useful tip for those intelligent enough to make it to the Wiki has now sunk back into the mud of the forum.The trouble with this attitude is that when you introduce workarounds or "unofficial" methods of doing things you increase the likelihood of someone breaking their precious save, coming to the forum to moan about it and then holding the opinion that SimSig is an unreliable programme. When these things go into a wiki that doubles as a manual, people will see it as normal, even if it's a last resort, risky fix to the problem. Log in to reply |
| TORR should be on by default 16/05/2015 at 10:08 #72287 | |
jc92
3690 posts |
When I first started playing Simsig, I forgot to choose TORR, got 5 Minutes in, thought "oh bu**er!" and restarted from scratch. Hasn't really been an issue since.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following users said thank you: flabberdacks, sorabain, RainbowNines, KymriskaDraken, Steamer |
| TORR should be on by default 17/05/2015 at 06:27 #72321 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
Honestly, of all the things affecting difficulty, I find TORR to be a pretty minor one. It only takes a moment to cancel routes (particularly if you have right-click configured to cancel routes by default, as I do, using shift to access the menu). If you forget to cancel routes, well, nothing happens. It’s not like a second train will accidentally follow a route it shouldn’t; stick locking prevents this. It’s probably not ideal procedure, but one could probably just leave all the routes set and then cancel them as needed immediately before setting a route, rather than cancelling them behind a passing train, which means you don’t add any cognitive load—you’re already in the area, looking at exactly the same signals, you basically just have to right-click before left-clicking (slightly harder for layouts that simulate mechanical lever frames where you can’t set a route up to a prior set route, but you get the idea). If I could ask for one thing to make simulations easier than real life as a “beginner” option, it wouldn’t be to enable TORR. It would probably be to convert some manual level crossings into AHBs. Log in to reply |