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| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 05:28 #72815 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
Playing default Derby TT. At 16:40 6M50, travelling UP is stopped at WALSALL (signal AS1), just before it exits the sim on its way to ALREWAS. Its headcode is not indicated (all we see is the red stripe), but the exit indicator states LAST SENT: 6M50, so maybe the sim thinks it's already exited. To support this, 1Q24 has just entered the sim from ALREWAS, moving DOWN, but is stopped at SAS5. There is no alternative exit point so we have an impasse. The only way out is to remove 6M50 (which I did) but as 1Q24 did not seem to want to move DOWN either, I removed it as well. Has anyone else experienced this and is there a better solution? There are other trains bound for ALREWAS. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 07:32 #72819 | |
Steamer
3985 posts |
I'm not sure what's happened there, do you have a save from 10 minutes previously, with the route set to Alrewas? The only thing I can think of is that you set the route to the white shunt triangle instead of AS1. Auto buttons are your friend! Seriously- how did the area get into that state? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 29/05/2015 at 07:38 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 07:57 #72821 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks for replying. Here's the previous save from 10 mins earlier. With regard to auto buttons, I used to think they would help me out of a situation like this. Currently, they prove more of a hindrance than a help here, so I prefer setting routes manually. The reason is that if I set an auto button near a junction, for instance, the following train may well end up being automatically sent down the wrong branch while I'm busy elsewhere, and if I have nowhere to manoeuvre I'm stuck, well and truly. So I find checking each train as it arrives at the junction and manually setting its route is quicker and safer. The only white triangle I can see here is the warner sign next to AS1R, but I don't recall setting a route to it. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Last edited: 29/05/2015 at 08:03 by maxand Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 09:08 #72825 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts |
" said:Thanks for replying. Here's the previous save from 10 mins earlier.Sorry- 6M50 is still on the branch. Ideally, I need a save with the route set onto the branch, or failing that just before the route has been set or just after the train has entered the branch. Quote: The only white triangle I can see here is the warner sign next to AS1R, but I don't recall setting a route to it.Warner buttons are yellow, that's a white shunt arrow. Quote: With regard to auto buttons, I used to think they would help me out of a situation like this. Currently, they prove more of a hindrance than a help here, so I prefer setting routes manually. The reason is that if I set an auto button near a junction, for instance, the following train may well end up being automatically sent down the wrong branch while I'm busy elsewhere, and if I have nowhere to manoeuvre I'm stuck, well and truly. So I find checking each train as it arrives at the junction and manually setting its route is quicker and safer.84, 86, 88, 95, 158, 506 and 517 can all be set into auto with absolutely no risk. 79, 82, 149, 152, 154, 166, 174, 176, 303, 304, 305, 308, 379, 384, 516, 518, 531, 533, 537, 556, 564, 569 and 581 can generally be left in auto mode, and cancelled as appropriate. The key is to not get bogged down in one area and check a train's timetable as it enters the area or leaves Derby, and check if it takes any secondary routes. For instance, after letting a 2Pxx out of Derby, take 303 and 304 out of auto mode ready to set the route to Tutbury. It's a skill that's worth developing, as it reduces your workload, especially when two trains are following each other fairly closely. After a while, you start to learn the service pattern- for instance, I know that a 1Vxx enters at Clay Cross followed by a 1Cxx, after which the Matlock comes off the branch. So, I know to pull the auto working after 1Vxx passes Ambergate. When learning, this is done simply by looking at the timetables of the Matlock and looking for a gap to let it out onto the mains. And frankly, a couple of wrong route calls or a bit of delay is a lot better than what you have at the moment. I'd advise you to start again from 04:45 or similar, and try that. At the moment, the area is so far gone that you're not going to be able to recover it. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 09:42 #72828 | |
lazzer
635 posts 
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*downloads SSG file* *loads it into Simsig* :yikes :yikes :yikes :yikes :yikes Bring it on. :lol: Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Noisynoel, flabberdacks, officer dibble, belly buster, Gwasanaethau |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 10:10 #72832 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
If you check the train list F2, you will see 6M50 is stopped at AS1 in the Up direction. Tell the driver to PSAS. It will leave the sim. This is an odd occurring bug and has been reported. Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 10:43 #72833 | |
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lazzer
635 posts
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Right, I know what *I'm* doing this afternoon.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: officer dibble, Noisynoel |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 14:43 #72842 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts |
" said:Its headcode is not indicated (all we see is the red stripe), but the exit indicator states LAST SENT: 6M50, so maybe the sim thinks it's already exited.The TD is moved to the 'Last Sent' berth as soon as the train passes Signal 82. Quote: as 1Q24 did not seem to want to move DOWN either, I removed it as well.Didn't see this one earlier- you need to grant Alrewas the slot to allow the signaller there to set the route for 1Q24 onto the single line, this is explained in the manual and I'm fairly sure you'll have done it earlier in the game. lazzer said: Took me until about 20:15 to clear the queue from Stenson Jn and get everything back on time. That excludes a few freights that have to run round and the Matlock branch, which is still about an hour and a half down. Note that most of the morning's ECS is still trapped on Barton and Etches Park. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 15:14 #72845 | |
Dick
387 posts |
" said:I'm not sure what's happened there, do you have a save from 10 minutes previously, with the route set to Alrewas? The only thing I can think of is that you set the route to the white shunt triangle instead of AS1.Max is just winding everybody up, nobody could get into that state without deliberately doing it. Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 15:16 #72846 | |
postal
5265 posts |
Max You seem to get yourself into an awful mess sometimes. Can I suggest a couple of things you might do which may help you to keep things on a more even keel. Firstly, you don't lose any macho points if you use the pause button. You can't respond to phone calls while the sim is paused, but you can stop the sim as soon as you have cleared down the phone circuit while you decide what you need to do. If it is a driver at red because you have been too busy elsewhere and have forgotten him/her, you can set the route and then re-start. Pausing the sim also gives you the chance to have a quick scroll around the panel to see where you are going to need to take action soon. Once you get into the habit of doing something like that, your sub-conscious quite often gives you a jog about the time you should be going back to the pinch-point. Secondly, you only cause problems for yourself if you become too mired in sorting out one concern while ignoring the rest of the sim. Again there is no shame in using the pause button every now and then and having a quick skim round the rest of the panel. Allied to all of that, if you are averse to pausing the sim, it is usually self-defeating to answer a phone-call and spend time solving that problem before you pick up the next call. You may prioritise your decisions and actions better if you answer calls as promptly as you can even if you don't take action immediately. You have said in the past that you can't normally find a multiplayer session at a time to suit. You should be able to find sessions being run at a time that fits in with your lifestyle somewhere in the SimSig community. You may find on joining a session (even if you just ask the host if you can sit and watch) that players are doing all sorts of things which you have never considered and which help them run the panel without getting into the sort of fix which seems to be your speciality! I know it is a long shot, but you may even find that there is a better way to do things than the Max way. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following users said thank you: TimTamToe, maxand |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 17:56 #72849 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
" said:....The reason is that if I set an auto button near a junction, for instance, the following train may well end up being automatically sent down the wrong branch while I'm busy elsewhere....You shouldn't be concerned that trains will blindly take whatever routes they are given by the signaler. They won't either in real life or in SimSig. Part of the data SimSig has for routes includes location checking at diverging junctions specifically to prevent this sort of thing from happening. It's up to the developer to put the necessary data in. Assuming this data is in correctly, if you did leave a route across a junction in auto and a train came across it that was supposed to go a different way at that junction, the train would be brought to a halt at the signal prior to the junction and you'll then get a phone call from saying the "wrong route is set". I am sure in your trials and tribulations with SimSig you would have seen this. now, the only times that doesn't happen is... 1) There are two paths to get to a common location in the trains TT so setting either route is ok. 2) The train is running without a timetable and so the sim doesn't know where the train should actually be going and the route checking logic is consequently ignored. 3) The sim has a bug in it and a particular location isn't being checked and should be. Item (1) is relatively rare and more likely in the larger sims where there is more chance that you may have an alternate path between two particular points in the sim. Item (2) would only occur as a consequence of user intervention of a trains timetable by abandoning it and then not allocating the train a new TT. If you do this you've only got yourself to blame if the train goes the wrong way!!! Item (3) is something both the devs and SimSig testers are well aware of and do their best to test and catch as many of them as they can during a sims development. However, every now and again one or two may slip through. If you think you've found one, report it on the forum. Bottom Line: Don't be afraid to use auto routes just because you are afraid trains will go where you tell them and not where they should go.. In the circumstance of having two trains one following closely behind another that go in different directions at a particular junction...If you know this is happening, remove the auto from the route, let the first train pass and then set the route the opposite direction on your next scan of the junction. Worse case is you don't scan back quickly enough and the following train stops at junction signal at red (and will call you two minutes later). Once you've set the route for the second train, and that second train has cleared the junction, set the original route back up and invoke the auto button again. Last edited: 29/05/2015 at 17:59 by Lardybiker Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 19:06 #72854 | |
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LucasLCC
94 posts |
I am seriously hoping that at some point during this save you forgot to pause it for two hours whilst you went and made (quite a few) cups of tea... I'm unsure how it could end up in this state any other way... Although judging from this sim, I think you're ready for Kings Cross... Last edited: 29/05/2015 at 19:07 by LucasLCC Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 19:08 #72856 | |
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lazzer
635 posts
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" said:I am seriously hoping that at some point during this save you forgot to pause it for two hours whilst you went and made (quite a few) cups of tea...The number of times I press 'P' (or so I think) and come back to the sound of a phone ringing ... Last edited: 29/05/2015 at 19:08 by lazzer Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 19:15 #72857 | |
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officer dibble
409 posts |
Having just ploughed through 5-hours of this save, I have to ask "how?!?!"
When in doubt - Contingency plan 2A. Someone didn't buy the milk - 2A. Someone sneezed at Swansea - 2A. A driver complains the cab is too cold - 2A. Unable to operate a HEx service 4 vice 8 - 2A. Points failure at Ipswich - 2A. Landslip at Pitlochry - 2A Log in to reply The following user said thank you: andyb0607 |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 19:15 #72858 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
Oh yes, please do Kings Cross, we'd be up for that challenge 
Noisynoel Last edited: 29/05/2015 at 19:16 by Noisynoel Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Meld, TimTamToe, officer dibble, flabberdacks, y10g9, headshot119 |
| No exit to Alrewas 29/05/2015 at 19:36 #72860 | |
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lazzer
635 posts
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" said:Having just ploughed through 5-hours of this save, I have to ask "how?!?!"Me too. But I'm only about 90 minutes in. Still, I've managed to get the number of trains down from 75 to 67! Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 30/05/2015 at 02:53 #72862 | |
Mattyq
259 posts |
[quote="postal" post=72846]Max You have said in the past that you can't normally find a multiplayer session at a time to suit. You should be able to find sessions being run at a time that fits in with your lifestyle somewhere in the SimSig community.[quote] John, Whilst I agree with everything you said in your response to Max, I do agree with Max that finding a time to play a UK-hosted MP is difficult when you live here in the glorious Commonwealth nation of Australia (you know... the prison colony? :silly: ). We are normally asleep when you guys are most active. In most cases, we have to be up, prepped and coffeed by 0330/0400hrs to join a UK game starting at 1900hrs GMT. It's been a while since I've played a UK host (but I do need to try harder). Not fat ..... fluffy!! (G Iglesias) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| No exit to Alrewas 30/05/2015 at 13:55 #72877 | |
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lazzer
635 posts
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I'm currently up to 18:57 on Max's Derby save, and have got it down to 51 trains in my area (from the 75 I inherited). The Up main from Sheet Stores Junction is still thick with trains, but the traffic on the Up Main from Kingsbury Junction now ends at Branston Junction. The surfeit of Matlock trains is causing trouble as I'm not turning them back, but stacking them in the Broadholme Down Loop. I may get this lot cleared by midnight ... Oh, and I now have this in the f5 window: "TOTAL SCORE 69 OUT OF 16385 (0%)"
Last edited: 30/05/2015 at 13:57 by lazzer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: flabberdacks |
| No exit to Alrewas 30/05/2015 at 14:01 #72878 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Again, thanks for your responses. BarryM wrote in post #6: Quote: Tell the driver to PSAS. It will leave the sim Can't find this acronym in either glossary, though Wikipedia says it could stand for Persistent Sexual Arousal Syndrome. Somehow this doesn't seem correct in this context. Would you mind elaborating? Looks as if in the heat of the moment I confused a white shunt triangle with a yellow warner triangle. Thanks Steamer. Nevertheless, I would have expected the train to have taken the shunt route and still vanished from the panel. The fact that it didn't implies the sim was willing to let another train in before the first was fully out. I agree with BarryM that "This is an odd occurring bug" and am glad it has been reported. Steamer wrote in post #8: Quote: you need to grant Alrewas the slot to allow the signaller there to set the route for 1Q24 onto the single line, this is explained in the manual All I could find in the manual after reading it at least 3 times was Quote: Permission for Arlewas to send a train is given by setting a route from signal SAS5 (which is grey) to signal 78. No mention of slots. Dick said in post #9 Quote: Max is just winding everybody up, nobody could get into that state without deliberately doing it. I'm not that kind of person, but a comment like that reveals a great deal about your choice of login name. Nor do I let the sim run for a couple of hours while making myself cups of tea. If I inadvertently forget to pause it while taking a break I return to my last remembered save (every 10 mins) and delete the ones after that, which I'm sure most people would do anyway. There are times when the buildup of trains is so bad that the only sensible solution is to go right back to near the beginning, or restart the whole sim. But there's also the challenge of getting things moving again, so sometimes I persevere, discovering fresh techniques that work better under these circumstances than when the sim is going smoothly. It's an interesting logistics challenge and a big thanks to Steamer, postal and Lardybiker for your detailed helpful comments. This one I think I will tough out until the congestion is resolved. Again I would be glad to join a multiplayer game if other of life's commitments permitted this (thanks for your offers), but right now I am limited to 30 - 90 mins of playing at the most, and enjoy it whenever I can fit it in. What with VIA buttons and the rest, Derby is one of the most forgiving sims I have enjoyed. One can if necessary route (goods) trains via unscheduled platforms without the sim complaining about wrong routes, and for the first time there is an (audible if necessary) warning of trains approaching a LC, something I have not seen before (or is this just a feature of the new loader?). This explains my decision to persist rather than abandon it. I've made a lot of notes to help me on my next pass through it. BTW, I run mine at about 75% speed - strikes a balance between stress and boredom. Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 30/05/2015 at 14:40 #72879 | |
moonraker
370 posts |
I think I know what may have happened. There is an arrow button for the route towards Lichfield TV. If you click on that the signal only displays a call on aspect. I made this mistake the other day. You must click on the signal not the arrow or the train stays on the branch
Last edited: 30/05/2015 at 14:40 by moonraker Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| No exit to Alrewas 30/05/2015 at 15:15 #72880 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts |
" said:Again, thanks for your responses.Application of deductive reasoning produces 'Pass Signal At Stop'. That's not one I've come across before, and may be a typo for PSAD (Pass Signal At Danger), which is used on here from time to time. Quote: Nope, if you set the route to the shunt triangle, AS1 will not clear. I suspect the simulation is programmed not to clear AS1 if the shunt route is selected, as that should only be used for a train reversing behind 78, which obviously would not require AS1. That is not to say, however, that a bug doesn't also exist which causes AS1 not to clear if you've correctly set the route to AS1. The appearance of 1Q24 is irrelevant: where it's sat it would not block a train leaving the single line. Quote: Quote:Taking everything you read to its logical extreme is probably another source of your problems. Sentence now rephrased to appease the excessively pedantic and explicitly state that what you're granting is a slot...you need to grant Alrewas the slot to allow the signaller there to set the route for 1Q24 onto the single line, this is explained in the manual Anyway, regardless of semantics, if you'd followed those instructions 1Q24 would've started moving. Quote: What with VIA buttons and the rest, Derby is one of the most forgiving sims I have enjoyed. One can if necessary route (goods) trains via unscheduled platforms without the sim complaining about wrong routesFreight trains, or any other trains for that matter, never complain about wrong platforms, unless you've sent them to one which would make it impossible for them to reach their destination. Freights will also take non-plaformed lines without complaint. I'm sure we've been through this one in the past. Quote: and for the first time there is an (audible if necessary) warning of trains approaching a LC, something I have not seen before (or is this just a feature of the new loader?).It's added at the discretion of the developer, Gloucester (a .exe) has it for Old Ends crossing. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 31/05/2015 at 11:19 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 30/05/2015 at 19:56 #72889 | |
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BarryM
2158 posts |
Sorry about the typo. PSAD! Barry Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| No exit to Alrewas 30/05/2015 at 20:58 #72894 | |
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lazzer
635 posts
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It's 20:50 sim time, and I've finally cleared the backlog on all lines. Down to 27 trains, but now I've got Etches Park and Barton Central to empty of their morning trains (I deliberately left those until last). Not exactly how they'd have done it in real life, but there you go. There are still two trains waiting to go to Matlock, with a third approaching Belper. My score is now 1082 OUT OF 22069 (5%). 
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: flabberdacks, GW43125 |
| No exit to Alrewas 31/05/2015 at 10:02 #72902 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
I haven't got Derby, but quite interesting seeing everyone's attempts! Could someone post a screenshot of the chaos at the start as obviously without the sim I can't load the save file. Cheers Gareth Log in to reply |
| No exit to Alrewas 31/05/2015 at 10:10 #72903 | |
pedroathome
916 posts
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" said:I haven't got Derby, but quite interesting seeing everyone's attempts! Could someone post a screenshot of the chaos at the start as obviously without the sim I can't load the save file.You can easily download Derby from the downloads area. It is a donationware sim. Log in to reply |