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| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 21/08/2015 at 17:13 #75350 | |
welshdragon
315 posts |
Is the signal on the up end of P1 at Harrow actually any use? Can't route from 98 to P1 EDIT: Geoff answered on Facebook my question, it's a fixed Red. Still doesn't explain why I can't route TO it though 
Last edited: 21/08/2015 at 17:25 by welshdragon Log in to reply |
| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 21/08/2015 at 17:50 #75351 | |
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Underwood
748 posts |
Sounds right, from what I recall it's happened on engineering days before with trains terminating from London into P1 and doing a shunt into P2
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| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 21/08/2015 at 18:04 #75352 | |
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JamesN
1607 posts |
It's standard LUL practice to provide a red lamp or similar at either end of the platform, even if you can't route up to it, to remind their drivers that they can't go that way...
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| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 21/08/2015 at 18:05 #75353 | |
madaboutrains
316 posts |
Fixed red light stops drivers from being silly and going past it.
RIP Feltham Panel 1 Log in to reply |
| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 21/08/2015 at 18:19 #75354 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
" said:Fixed red light stops drivers from being silly and going past it.:doh :doh :doh We may as well take all the signals down then going by that statement! Yes SPADs / SPARs do occur but not that often! "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 21/08/2015 at 18:19 by headshot119 Log in to reply |
| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 21/08/2015 at 21:38 #75361 | |
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TUT
532 posts |
" said:" said:Yeah, but along with the FRL is usually a trainstop. But yes it's supposed to be a strong visual cue that you've somehow ended up heading in the wrong direction. There's no signalled move into HOTH platform 1 in the southbound (up) direction, but I guess it's just another precaution. It's not too hard to imagine the points accidentally being incorrectly scotch and clipped and a train then authorised over them in an emergency, with the intention being to authorise the train past the signal at danger and into platform 2. Not so many years ago a train was authorised past the starter signal at Tower Hill westbound platform 1 (EJ11, for those who're interested) after the points had been scotched and clipped by the station supervisor. Unfortunately, he had accidentally locked them set for the trap road and that was where the train duly ended up. It's very dark down there, not such a difficult mistake to make. Having said that, it's standard practise to have them at the end of the next platform. So, for example, there's one at the southern end of Croxley's northbound platform, presumably for a train which has accidentally ended up travelling in the wrong direction along the northbound all the way from Watford, some 1.9 km. Slightly difficult to imagine this being all that much good, as I should think you'd be lucky not to encounter the headlights of an approaching train before encountering this fixed red light. Assuming you managed to get all that way without realising something was up.Fixed red light stops drivers from being silly and going past it.:doh :doh :doh Last edited: 21/08/2015 at 21:40 by TUT Log in to reply |
| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 22/08/2015 at 07:03 #75364 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
" said:From memory, LU started doing this after a driver doing a crew change got into the wrong end of a train at Camden Town and took it a significant distance the wrong way. There was no signalled move either into or out of the station in that direction, but that's not relevant. Log in to reply |
| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 22/08/2015 at 07:30 #75365 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:" said:Suppose one tunnel looks pretty much like another.From memory, LU started doing this after a driver doing a crew change got into the wrong end of a train at Camden Town and took it a significant distance the wrong way. There was no signalled move either into or out of the station in that direction, but that's not relevant. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 22/08/2015 at 09:41 #75368 | |
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metcontrol
227 posts |
" said:" said:It was actually before that when a similar event occurred elsewhere (cannot for the life of me remember where it was but it was in the early 1990s). Most installations marked the end of shunt moves back into platforms. Camden didn't have a fixed red as it wasn't possible to shunt back into the platform concerned. The incident there was human error. Almost every platform has a station starter which the driver sees before starting off. For whatever reason the driver did not notice this was missing and promptly began to depart in the wrong direction.From memory, LU started doing this after a driver doing a crew change got into the wrong end of a train at Camden Town and took it a significant distance the wrong way. There was no signalled move either into or out of the station in that direction, but that's not relevant. Last edited: 22/08/2015 at 09:42 by metcontrol Log in to reply |
| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 22/08/2015 at 11:42 #75370 | |
Harsig
16 posts |
" said:" said:The incident which prompted the installation of many of these fixed red lights was at Kings Cross on the Piccadilly Line. During some service suspension a westbound train was instructed to reverse at Kings Cross and return eastbound. The correct procedure was for the train to detrain in the westbound platform then run forward to west of the crossover where the driver would change ends and return to the eastbound platform through the crossover. What actually happened was that the driver changed ends while the train was still in the westbound platform, and in the absence of any visual signal telling him not to proceed, departed eastbound on the westbound line." said:It was actually before that when a similar event occurred elsewhere (cannot for the life of me remember where it was but it was in the early 1990s). Most installations marked the end of shunt moves back into platforms. Camden didn't have a fixed red as it wasn't possible to shunt back into the platform concerned. The incident there was human error. Almost every platform has a station starter which the driver sees before starting off. For whatever reason the driver did not notice this was missing and promptly began to depart in the wrong direction.From memory, LU started doing this after a driver doing a crew change got into the wrong end of a train at Camden Town and took it a significant distance the wrong way. There was no signalled move either into or out of the station in that direction, but that's not relevant. These fixed red lights were installed at locations where trains might have to detrain to reverse but after detrainment must first depart the platform in the normal direction to actually reach the actual location where reversal takes place. Thus if the driver makes the same error as above he should now see a fixed red light. Camden Town which has been mentioned earlier in this thread did not get any fixed red lights because it is not a reversing location. Incidentally these fixed red lights generally do not have trainstops associated with them. Providing them would have significantly increased the complexity of the installation work as alterations would have been required to the existing signalling to ensure that the trainstop lowers as each train passes in the normal direction of travel. You also get into the realms of trainstop proving. If you do find a fixed red light with a train stop then you can bet it actually marks the end of a signalled route. Harrow On The Hill provides examples of both sorts. There are fixed red lights at the south ends of platforms 1, 3 & 4. Those at the south ends of platforms 1 & 3 are of the type described above and do not have trainstops, ie all trains arriving in those platforms do so from the south and so the fixed red lights in these platforms will only be observed by a driver who changes end in error. In contrast the fixed red light at the south end of platform 4 is the end of the signalled route from the reversing siding (JB103 rte 2), and as such is equipped with a train stop. Last edited: 22/08/2015 at 11:42 by Harsig Log in to reply |
| Harrow-on-the-Hill P1 22/08/2015 at 17:54 #75374 | |
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metcontrol
227 posts |
I had Piccadilly in mind, but couldn't be certain where. All I could recall was the "bag on deadman" incident - which was a correct direction departure (even if there was no driver in the cab!)
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