Incorrect Aspect

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

headshot119 in post 94720 said:

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

But, unusually, it is correct per Control Tables.

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

headshot119 in post 94720 said:

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

But, unusually, it is correct per Control Tables.

JamesN in post 94721 said:

headshot119 in post 94720 said:

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

But, unusually, it is correct per Control Tables.

Are you sure that applies to trains routed from JP40 signal?

Have a look at the plate behind 40 lever in Rickmansworth box shown here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/21886441905/in/album-72157658939413038/

Am I being silly, or does that not require 38 lever reverse before 40 lever can be reversed.

(Strictly speaking 38 lever must be reversed when clearing trains out of the south sidings via 28 crossover reverse. There used to be a route into what's marked as "Rickmansworth 24" in the sim which would not have required any other levers reverse, but that route is not relevant and is no longer used).

TUT in post 94725 said:

JamesN in post 94721 said:

headshot119 in post 94720 said:

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

But, unusually, it is correct per Control Tables.

Are you sure that applies to trains routed from JP40 signal?

Have a look at the plate behind 40 lever in Rickmansworth box shown here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/21886441905/in/album-72157658939413038/

Am I being silly, or does that not require 38 lever reverse before 40 lever can be reversed.

(Strictly speaking 38 lever must be reversed when clearing trains out of the south sidings via 28 crossover reverse. There used to be a route into what's marked as "Rickmansworth 24" in the sim which would not have required any other levers reverse, but that route is not relevant and is no longer used).

According to the control table I've seen 37 off requires BH,BG,BF,BE,BD,971D tracks clear. I would expect the lever plate for 37 to mention 27 if it needed that crossover reverse but interestingly it doesn't mention anything.

I would agree that 40 needs 38 reverse before it can be pulled.

JamesN in post 94721 said:

headshot119 in post 94720 said:

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

But, unusually, it is correct per Control Tables.

Are you sure that applies to trains routed from JP40 signal?

Have a look at the plate behind 40 lever in Rickmansworth box shown here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/21886441905/in/album-72157658939413038/

Am I being silly, or does that not require 38 lever reverse before 40 lever can be reversed.

(Strictly speaking 38 lever must be reversed when clearing trains out of the south sidings via 28 crossover reverse. There used to be a route into what's marked as "Rickmansworth 24" in the sim which would not have required any other levers reverse, but that route is not relevant and is no longer used).

headshot119 in post 94726 said:

TUT in post 94725 said:

JamesN in post 94721 said:

headshot119 in post 94720 said:

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

But, unusually, it is correct per Control Tables.

Are you sure that applies to trains routed from JP40 signal?

Have a look at the plate behind 40 lever in Rickmansworth box shown here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/21886441905/in/album-72157658939413038/

Am I being silly, or does that not require 38 lever reverse before 40 lever can be reversed.

(Strictly speaking 38 lever must be reversed when clearing trains out of the south sidings via 28 crossover reverse. There used to be a route into what's marked as "Rickmansworth 24" in the sim which would not have required any other levers reverse, but that route is not relevant and is no longer used).

According to the control table I've seen 37 off requires BH,BG,BF,BE,BD,971D tracks clear. I would expect the lever plate for 37 to mention 27 if it needed that crossover reverse but interestingly it doesn't mention anything.

I would agree that 40 needs 38 reverse before it can be pulled.

37 cannot be cleared with 27 reverse - there's only one route available from the signal and it's into platform 2.

Don't forget there's two signals there in reality, main colour light signal JP37 and disc shunt JP38.

Looking at the lever plates it's 46, the northbound outer home signal that requires 37 reverse for the route into platform 2. Or in other words 47 routes to 46 routes to 37. 40 and 41 route to 38.

TUT in post 94725 said:

JamesN in post 94721 said:

headshot119 in post 94720 said:

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

But, unusually, it is correct per Control Tables.

Are you sure that applies to trains routed from JP40 signal?

Have a look at the plate behind 40 lever in Rickmansworth box shown here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/21886441905/in/album-72157658939413038/

Am I being silly, or does that not require 38 lever reverse before 40 lever can be reversed.

(Strictly speaking 38 lever must be reversed when clearing trains out of the south sidings via 28 crossover reverse. There used to be a route into what's marked as "Rickmansworth 24" in the sim which would not have required any other levers reverse, but that route is not relevant and is no longer used).

The mechanical locking, per the lever leads and control tables would prevent routing 40-37-SB Main; 40R requires 38R; 38R locks 37N.

TUT in post 94727 said:

headshot119 in post 94726 said:

TUT in post 94725 said:

JamesN in post 94721 said:

headshot119 in post 94720 said:

The first one certainly doesn't look correct.

But, unusually, it is correct per Control Tables.

Are you sure that applies to trains routed from JP40 signal?

Have a look at the plate behind 40 lever in Rickmansworth box shown here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/21886441905/in/album-72157658939413038/

Am I being silly, or does that not require 38 lever reverse before 40 lever can be reversed.

(Strictly speaking 38 lever must be reversed when clearing trains out of the south sidings via 28 crossover reverse. There used to be a route into what's marked as "Rickmansworth 24" in the sim which would not have required any other levers reverse, but that route is not relevant and is no longer used).

According to the control table I've seen 37 off requires BH,BG,BF,BE,BD,971D tracks clear. I would expect the lever plate for 37 to mention 27 if it needed that crossover reverse but interestingly it doesn't mention anything.

I would agree that 40 needs 38 reverse before it can be pulled.

37 cannot be cleared with 27 reverse - there's only one route available from the signal and it's into platform 2.

Don't forget there's two signals there in reality, main colour light signal JP37 and disc shunt JP38.

Looking at the lever plates it's 46, the northbound outer home signal that requires 37 reverse for the route into platform 2. Or in other words 47 routes to 46 routes to 37. 40 and 41 route to 38.

Ah sorry I cross read what you meant. I presume then that JP33 is treated as a main aspect fixed red then? (Even though from the control tables it appears to just be a shunt disk)

I am trying to follow whats being said, and think I have the jist of it JP37, is in respets 37 and 38 (although both not simulated in SimSig), 37 the main signal and 38 the shunt (subsidiary position), to set a route from the sidings you need to have pulled 38 with a route set into one of the platforms and then can set the route from 40, which should therefore show a call-on aspect from the subsidiary position, and not the yellow aspect on the main

mark265 in post 94732 said:

I am trying to follow whats being said, and think I have the jist of it JP37, is in respets 37 and 38 (although both not simulated in SimSig), 37 the main signal and 38 the shunt (subsidiary position), to set a route from the sidings you need to have pulled 38 with a route set into one of the platforms and then can set the route from 40, which should therefore show a call-on aspect from the subsidiary position, and not the yellow aspect on the main

Yep that's about it. Unfortunately I can't get a picture of JP37 and JP38 but it looks quite a lot like this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/7006770695/in/album-72157624683003635/

These are now-decommissioned NQ25 and shunt signal NQ48 at Finchley Central. NQ48 though is a shunt from the mainline into a siding so its function is a bit different, but you can picture how it would look on the ground.

I am trying to follow whats being said, and think I have the jist of it JP37, is in respets 37 and 38 (although both not simulated in SimSig), 37 the main signal and 38 the shunt (subsidiary position), to set a route from the sidings you need to have pulled 38 with a route set into one of the platforms and then can set the route from 40, which should therefore show a call-on aspect from the subsidiary position, and not the yellow aspect on the main

mark265 in post 94732 said:

I am trying to follow whats being said, and think I have the jist of it JP37, is in respets 37 and 38 (although both not simulated in SimSig), 37 the main signal and 38 the shunt (subsidiary position), to set a route from the sidings you need to have pulled 38 with a route set into one of the platforms and then can set the route from 40, which should therefore show a call-on aspect from the subsidiary position, and not the yellow aspect on the main

SimSig is probably operating towards the limits of its capability here - as has been said it's not really designed to simulate LU signalling practices which are, in reality, quite different from main lines.

A solution might be to provide a shunt exit (white arrow) at JP33, and an additional route from JP37/38 to the white arrow. JP40 would then require either [b]that[b] route set or the existing shunt route from JP37/38 to the NB main before being able to set. Similarly JP46 to JP37 would first require JP37/38 to JP33 (existing main aspect route) set before being able to set.

However, there are two caveats to this - Firstly; Marylebone is first and foremost not a SimSig sim, but a Chiltern Railways training/timetabling tool which Geoff has produced for them to their specification, and then been allowed to release to the public as well. Secondly ARS doesn't cope particularly well with having to set a route from B to C before setting a route from A to B. It will do it, but it can and does cause issues.

I have the necessary information to improve the realism of the LUL stretch a little; and will have a conversation with Geoff off-forum whether improvements are warranted/possible/etc

As to the initial report in the thread - there isn't really a bug - some very minor detail differences regarding aspects displayed and sequential route locking perhaps; but on the whole aspect sequences are generally correct.

mark265 in post 94732 said:

I am trying to follow whats being said, and think I have the jist of it JP37, is in respets 37 and 38 (although both not simulated in SimSig), 37 the main signal and 38 the shunt (subsidiary position), to set a route from the sidings you need to have pulled 38 with a route set into one of the platforms and then can set the route from 40, which should therefore show a call-on aspect from the subsidiary position, and not the yellow aspect on the main

SimSig is probably operating towards the limits of its capability here - as has been said it's not really designed to simulate LU signalling practices which are, in reality, quite different from main lines.

A solution might be to provide a shunt exit (white arrow) at JP33, and an additional route from JP37/38 to the white arrow. JP40 would then require either that route set or the existing shunt route from JP37/38 to the NB main before being able to set. Similarly JP46 to JP37 would first require JP37/38 to JP33 (existing main aspect route) set before being able to set.

However, there are two caveats to this - Firstly; Marylebone is first and foremost not a SimSig sim, but a Chiltern Railways training/timetabling tool which Geoff has produced for them to their specification, and then been allowed to release to the public as well. Secondly ARS doesn't cope particularly well with having to set a route from B to C before setting a route from A to B. It will do it, but it can and does cause issues.

I have the necessary information to improve the realism of the LUL stretch a little; and will have a conversation with Geoff off-forum whether improvements are warranted/possible/etc

As to the initial report in the thread - there isn't really a bug - some very minor detail differences regarding aspects displayed and sequential route locking perhaps; but on the whole aspect sequences are generally correct.

JamesN in post 94735 said:

mark265 in post 94732 said:

I am trying to follow whats being said, and think I have the jist of it JP37, is in respets 37 and 38 (although both not simulated in SimSig), 37 the main signal and 38 the shunt (subsidiary position), to set a route from the sidings you need to have pulled 38 with a route set into one of the platforms and then can set the route from 40, which should therefore show a call-on aspect from the subsidiary position, and not the yellow aspect on the main

SimSig is probably operating towards the limits of its capability here - as has been said it's not really designed to simulate LU signalling practices which are, in reality, quite different from main lines.

A solution might be to provide a shunt exit (white arrow) at JP33, and an additional route from JP37/38 to the white arrow. JP40 would then require either [b]that[b] route set or the existing shunt route from JP37/38 to the NB main before being able to set. Similarly JP46 to JP37 would first require JP37/38 to JP33 (existing main aspect route) set before being able to set.

However, there are two caveats to this - Firstly; Marylebone is first and foremost not a SimSig sim, but a Chiltern Railways training/timetabling tool which Geoff has produced for them to their specification, and then been allowed to release to the public as well. Secondly ARS doesn't cope particularly well with having to set a route from B to C before setting a route from A to B. It will do it, but it can and does cause issues.

I have the necessary information to improve the realism of the LUL stretch a little; and will have a conversation with Geoff off-forum whether improvements are warranted/possible/etc

As to the initial report in the thread - there isn't really a bug - some very minor detail differences regarding aspects displayed and sequential route locking perhaps; but on the whole aspect sequences are generally correct.

I still think it is a bug regardless, as even in all other sims produced, I have never seen a yellow procede aspect give on a signal with a route set to a shunt signal. And even in real world, given a yellow procede aspect to a route set to a shunt signal would be highly unusual

I still think it is a bug regardless, as even in all other sims produced, I have never seen a yellow procede aspect give on a signal with a route set to a shunt signal. And even in real world, given a yellow procede aspect to a route set to a shunt signal would be highly unusual

I think that's the answer. It's so easy for us players to be blissfully unaware of how tricky things are under the bonnet!

Although, if you are looking at making a few improvements to the LUL area (and bear in mind this will all be swept away with resignalling soon anyway), I would point out JT82 is actually four-aspect and there are two routes available from JW3 signal, via 35 crossover or 37 crossover. Apologies if they were already on your to-do list, just things I noticed that I thought were a bit too trivial to bother writing up :)

I am trying to follow whats being said, and think I have the jist of it JP37, is in respets 37 and 38 (although both not simulated in SimSig),