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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/08/2018 at 18:16 #111141 | |
58050
2659 posts 
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John mentioned in his last post that he managed a score in the 90% score with the sim on the easy settings. Personally I can honestly say I've never played this tt with faults & failures on due to the complexity of the timetable. I'd certainly like to know if anyone out there has dared to actually run this tt with faults & failures turned on & how the tt is behaving as a result in view of the extensive shunting around the station over night.
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/08/2018 at 18:27 #111142 | |
greatkingrat
75 posts |
On the subject of scoring, I notice I seem to keep getting bonus points (currently 150). What are these given for?
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/08/2018 at 18:30 #111143 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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IIRC there are some pullman trains in the timetable which if kept on time you'd get bonus points.
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/08/2018 at 18:31 #111144 | |
jc92
3687 posts |
As a side issue I've just had crew call me and tell me they will be ready to relieve a freightliner at Carlisle yard (train is booked through without dropping off) surely that's irrelevant to the PSB. Its kingmoor towers problem? Maybe the crew change needs to removing as it happens "off sim" and the train won't reenter until its complete anyway
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/08/2018 at 18:45 #111145 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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John's the one to answer your quiery Joe. I do remember Tom, John & I having extensive chat(via e-mails) on how train going through Kingmoor should be tt'd to make them run as proto-typical as possible. There are a number of trains which run through the yard via the Goods Lines in both directions.
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/08/2018 at 18:57 #111146 | |
postal
5265 posts |
jc92 in post 111144 said:As a side issue I've just had crew call me and tell me they will be ready to relieve a freightliner at Carlisle yard (train is booked through without dropping off) surely that's irrelevant to the PSB. Its kingmoor towers problem? Maybe the crew change needs to removing as it happens "off sim" and the train won't reenter until its complete anywayIt's a no-win situation. If you take out the crew change you may well find the train leaving ridiculously early. If you try and avoid that by putting in a "must wait for booked time" tick in the box you lose the opportunity for an element of early running if the changeover driver is available early. If you try and avoid it by putting in a dwell time or rule you may delay the train if it arrives late. I left the crew change in the TT on the basis that it would be the most effective way of getting a true to life TT. Perhaps we should ask Tom if it is possible for phone calls from "hidden" trains to be disabled. At the end of the day it's only a TT and if anyone doesn't think it is realistic, they can amend their copy and subject to any OK from Pascal, even offer it as a download for others to use. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 16/08/2018 at 19:01 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jc92 |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/08/2018 at 19:49 #111148 | |
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John 23
176 posts |
I must say, I find the movements for the sleeper shunts just after 0030 impenetrable!
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/08/2018 at 20:13 #111151 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
John 23 in post 111148 said:I must say, I find the movements for the sleeper shunts just after 0030 impenetrable!The stand-load sleeper from P8 has to be shunted inside the rear BG of 1M13. The pilot joins the back of 1M13, draws off the BG and then shunts onto the stand-load sleeper. The pilot, BG and sleeper then shunt from P8 to the rear of 1M13 and off you go. In the reverse direction 1S26MX (says he speaking from memory) has to drop the first sleeper in the train back to P8. This is behind the BG which is the first vehicle in the consist so the train engine plus BG plus sleeper shunt forward and reverse into P8. After dropping the sleeper, the loco and BG shunt back onto the train to proceed towards Glasgow. 1S26MO has the sleeper as first vehicle so the the move is the same but without the baggage of a BG as well. It is documented in short note form in the Manual as Summary of shunts from one train to another. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 16/08/2018 at 20:17 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: John 23 |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 17/08/2018 at 09:42 #111163 | |
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kbarber
1743 posts
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Steamer in post 111120 said:58050 in post 111114 said:When I was in Willesden Brent, departure time was the time the train got moving from the yard itself. (Add to that the Euston tradition of the 'rough tick' - anything up to 2min late could be ticked as right time. Might or might not be something similar around Carlisle.) So by the time the train presented itself at Brent Junction (nowadays opposite the south end of WEFOC) it could easily be 4 or 5 minutes after booked departure from the Brent.Joe makes a good point regarding the departure time from Kingmoor marshalling yard. Kingmoor marshalling yard was the largest yard on the UK railway network. So in the Mandatory or Conditional WTT it gives the location as to what part of the yard the train departs from, but there aren't any specific timings points in any BR publication which give details of how long trains take from departing the yard to when they enter onto Carlisle PSB. So trains losing a bit of time is something you'd have to live with I'm afraid. All I'd say to Steamer is the fact that the name of the game with SimSig & signallers back in the BR era was to keep the traffic moving within the safety parameters, but you'd struggle to find anywhere on the network where line converged & was very busy with traffic where you could get everything through right time. Yes I can definately confirm that the timings in the 1979-1980 Carlisle timetable are all as per the WTTs used.Given that it takes 2-3 minutes between a train entering the simulation and the train passing CE484/CE485, and that a 2-3 minute delay at Caldew is virtually guaranteed, I think there's a strong argument that the timetable considers 'departing the yard' to mean passing signals 484/485. Also, wouldn't the Kingmoor Yard signaller/shunters consider the departure time to be the time at which the train leaves their control, rather than the time it starts moving out of an internal siding? Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 17/08/2018 at 18:31 #111175 | |
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norman B
111 posts |
I have noticed a fault with 5J39 when it leaves Upperby Yard for the run round.After 0J29 has detached and drawn forward,once the lever frame is operated the reverse movement passes under the standing portion then appears as it should entering the Yard again.It is not reversing initially using thr run round.Is this a bug? Using 1980 era with the 1979/1980TT. I have just seen the other post re Carlilse TT issues.Would a moderator please move this post.Thanks Last edited: 17/08/2018 at 18:35 by norman B Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 17/08/2018 at 18:54 #111176 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
norman B in post 111175 said:I have noticed a fault with 5J39 when it leaves Upperby Yard for the run round.After 0J29 has detached and drawn forward,once the lever frame is operated the reverse movement passes under the standing portion then appears as it should entering the Yard again.It is not reversing initially using thr run round.Is this a bug?I've just run a test and I think the graphics may be misleading you. The RR GF is in the middle of a track circuit. Once the GF is set, when the loco sets back towards the GF the TC fills red back to the TC on which the rest of the train is lying. However the loco takes the route to the RR Loop from the GF and the TC then clears. This may give the impression that the loco is passing through the train. If you let things run on, the loco will then call in waiting at CE271 on the RR loop which seems to indicate that it passed along the RR Loop correctly. If that was not your experience, do you have a saved game so that the problem can be examined? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 17/08/2018 at 19:17 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: norman B |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 17/08/2018 at 19:50 #111179 | |
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norman B
111 posts |
That was my exact reading of the happening.So not a bug. Great TT ,enjoying it as I worked in Carlisle area in the late 80s! Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 17/08/2018 at 20:04 #111181 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
norman B in post 111179 said:That was my exact reading of the happening.So not a bug.A lot of the trip and pilot workings are a best guess at what might have happened. If there is anything you spot that would never have been done that way in real life, please either PM me or post here so we can work out how to make the TT a more realistic experience. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: norman B |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 17/08/2018 at 20:52 #111183 | |
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norman B
111 posts |
No Problem- will do.
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 10:35 #111202 | |
Splodge
719 posts
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Out of interest, why were locos not brought out already attached to the stock or used to propel? Space constraints within the yard?
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 13:04 #111208 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
58050 in post 111141 said:John mentioned in his last post that he managed a score in the 90% score with the sim on the easy settings. Personally I can honestly say I've never played this tt with faults & failures on due to the complexity of the timetable. I'd certainly like to know if anyone out there has dared to actually run this tt with faults & failures turned on & how the tt is behaving as a result in view of the extensive shunting around the station over night.I run all my sims with faults all set to 3 clicks up from zero, which I think is realistic enough, and if I'm simulating bad weather I increase points failures to about 25% to simulate points blocked by snow. I generally have delay probability and delay length set to around 30%. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 13:57 #111209 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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Splodge in post 111202 said:Out of interest, why were locos not brought out already attached to the stock or used to propel? Space constraints within the yard?Spolge what part of the sim are you referring to exactly? Carlisle Upperby? If that is the case Upperby is mainly a dead end set of sdgs for coaching &NPCCS. There are 1 or 2 roads where run rounds can take place but in the WTT it states that a shunt loco brings the stock out & then the mainline loco goes onto the rear before heading off towards Carlisle station. Further to that it's as per the loco diagrams. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Splodge |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 15:57 #111214 | |
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officer dibble
409 posts |
Pascal, superb TT as always, got a couple of issues though, perhaps you could have a look? I am currently rolling through the Thursday TT; No shunter appears to work 5T03 (detached from 3S11) in SA. 0S07 arrives from Kingmoor MPD to attach to 5S07 to work 3S07. No 5S07 appears. When in doubt - Contingency plan 2A. Someone didn't buy the milk - 2A. Someone sneezed at Swansea - 2A. A driver complains the cab is too cold - 2A. Unable to operate a HEx service 4 vice 8 - 2A. Points failure at Ipswich - 2A. Landslip at Pitlochry - 2A Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 17:03 #111216 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
officer dibble in post 111214 said:Pascal, superb TT as always, got a couple of issues though, perhaps you could have a look?Dibs You've got lost somewhere. Trip03 goes into Collier Lane as 0T03/$CSTP3M at 01:55. It is due out at 02:34 as 5T03/$5T03DMX to drop the stock for 5S07 into P1. The pilot then drops off as 0T03/$CSTP3D to shunt to SA and pick up the stock ex 3S11 to transfer to 1S25 as 5T03/$5T03FMX. If $CSTP3M hasn't got to Collier Lane for whatever reason, the rest of the moves don't happen as the entry of $5T03DMX is ruled to however many minutes after the exit of $CSTP3M. The trip working is detailed in the manual at the Trip03 link. All of the other pilot moves are laid out in similar fashion from other links in the Manual. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 17:56 #111219 | |
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Ray
211 posts |
Its a totally absorbing timetable which keeps you on your toes. I use the slowest speed at busy times and employ sticky labels all over to avoid getting confused. I use IN OUT UD1 UD2 moveable labels at the yard as a reminder which works very well. Its a pity the reporting numbers are duplicated in the sim as this causes a lot of confusion. For example a common loco is 0T01 which appears many times. The timetable for this loco changes as time passes and you have to be aware that you employ the current version of timetable. The timetable for that period seems to suggest that the Carlisle layout was not really ideal for the work it was given to do.
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 18:15 #111220 | |
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officer dibble
409 posts |
postal in post 111216 said:officer dibble in post 111214 said:Hmm interesting, 5T03 never appears from Collier Lane Sidings. I have run an Analysis of the TT and it throws up a large number of warnings, 135 to be precise. Perhaps this is causing issues?Pascal, superb TT as always, got a couple of issues though, perhaps you could have a look?Dibs Post has attachments. Log in to view them. When in doubt - Contingency plan 2A. Someone didn't buy the milk - 2A. Someone sneezed at Swansea - 2A. A driver complains the cab is too cold - 2A. Unable to operate a HEx service 4 vice 8 - 2A. Points failure at Ipswich - 2A. Landslip at Pitlochry - 2A Last edited: 18/08/2018 at 18:19 by officer dibble Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 18:32 #111221 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
Dibs 5T03/$CSTP3DMX has never not appeared in the hundreds of hours of testing that I have done on the TT so I still think you've lost 0T03/$CSTP3M somewhere. Is 0T03/$CSTP3M showing in F2 by any chance. If it is, it is probably still sitting in Sdg B having a rest after dropping the NPCCS to attach to 4M10 rather than going off to Collier Lane for the 5S07 NPCCS. In regard to the errors they are known, understood and cause no problems in regard to the operation of the TT. Have a look at post #111013 at 13/08/18 20:56 earlier in this thread for an explanation. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 18/08/2018 at 18:38 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: officer dibble |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 18:32 #111222 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
Ray in post 111219 said:Its a totally absorbing timetable which keeps you on your toes. I use the slowest speed at busy times and employ sticky labels all over to avoid getting confused. I use IN OUT UD1 UD2 moveable labels at the yard as a reminder which works very well. Its a pity the reporting numbers are duplicated in the sim as this causes a lot of confusion. For example a common loco is 0T01 which appears many times. The timetable for this loco changes as time passes and you have to be aware that you employ the current version of timetable. The timetable for that period seems to suggest that the Carlisle layout was not really ideal for the work it was given to do.Helps to have the simplifier from the manual to hand as well. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 19:30 #111231 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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Dibbs I've got to admit that I'm with John on this one. Over the years of this timetable being created & re-worked he's definitely run this tt hundreds of times & I can't say that T03 pilot has never appeared. That said when I was watching the multi-player session that Kev hosted there was a similar issue regarding 5S07 not appearing when it should have. It turned out that 0T03 going into Colliers Lane sdgs was 20+ minutes late even though 0S07 was standing at Caldew Jn. I think a tt edit is required in the shape of a rule preventing 0S07 coming off Kingmoor TMD until 'x' minutes after 5S07 arrives in P1. That way at least we won't have the loco sitting there waiting for the vans to arrive in P1. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: officer dibble |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 18/08/2018 at 20:59 #111234 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
58050 in post 111231 said:I think a tt edit is required in the shape of a rule preventing 0S07 coming off Kingmoor TMD until 'x' minutes after 5S07 arrives in P1. That way at least we won't have the loco sitting there waiting for the vans to arrive in P1.In reality, would the loco sit and wait at Kingmoor until the shunter from the station rang the depot and said that it was OK to send the loco forward? The stock can't be put into P1 sooner as the platform sees a procession of trains all night and you have to wait for the gap to appear before you can berth the stock. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |