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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 10/01/2021 at 20:11 #136213 | |
58050
2659 posts |
postal in post 136207 said:Soton_Speed in post 136198 said:With some of the new Loader updates that have occured recently train types being changed has happened on a number of occasions with some of the TTs I've created incl. West Hampstead 1991. I've had to change them back to what they should be & re-save the TT. With regards to 4S19 this will in due course be amended once I go through all the diesel loco diagrams I've got to add into the TT. Work will resume on this tomorrow. But as John has said well spotted as this sort of thing relies on users to spot trains that have the wrong traction type on them.For the Train Type 'Cl.40+8BG/GUV' (ref 4S19DMX), the Class 40 in question appears to have been fitted with a pantograph (Brecknell Willis or Stone Faiveley?) rather than the more usual EE 16SVT to deliver power to the traction motors...Good spot. Don't know how that happened (and has not been picked up until now). Pascal (58050) has some more work to do on the TT so an update will appear in due course. Until then it would be best if users could modify their own local copies of the TT. Checking back it seems to have happened when the Cl. 40 + 8 BG consist was added to the train types (which seems to have happened some time in 2020 if my book-keeping is right). Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 12/01/2021 at 17:03 #136295 | |
John 23
176 posts |
4S19 Thursday TT The replacement Cl 40 loco appears from Wapping Sidings, runs round via S2 and couples to its train at the north end. The train then does not change to the new departure at 1308. All attempts to get it moving keep on telling me it's the wrong traction type. I cannot see that this has been reported elsewhere. Any ideas, anyone? Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 12/01/2021 at 17:20 #136296 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
Its been reported about 3 replies up
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: John 23 |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 26/06/2021 at 10:44 #140206 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
Hi Pascal & John Not sure if this is a tt error or meant to be be in there Running the 79-80 tt on a Friday and had the message 6M89 is speed restricted load so 6M89R runs. It enters Lockerbie Up Loop at 18:14, but all of the following time locations are 17:xx until Kingsmoor. As I say wasn't sure if it was because it has speed restricted load or just a typo on the initial entry time Cheers Gareth Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 26/06/2021 at 12:15 #140207 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
TimTamToe in post 140206 said:Hi Pascal & JohnHi Gareth, if memory serves me correctly that train could convey 2 types of traffic & the traffic conveyed on that specific train due to its nature the train ran at a reduced speed. That said if the train enters Lockerbie Up Loop at 18.14 I would have thought the following times should be 1818:xx & not 17:xx which obviously needs changing. I suspect that the ':xx' times are shown because of 2 things:- 1. We didn't have the timings for the train conveying that traffic at the lower speed. 2. No one has managed to actually note the time the train actually passes the other locations in the TT data so they could be added in later due to the other traffic on the move throughout the sim at that time. In any event when I get round to updating this TT at some point this year I'll take a look at this specific train you've listed here & see if I can't amend the timings so they actually give a passing time. Thanks for pointing this out. If my ideas as to why this is aren't correct then I suspect John may give you a different answer as he's played through this TT more times than I have. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: TimTamToe |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 26/06/2021 at 14:07 #140213 | |
postal
5264 posts 
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TimTamToe in post 140206 said:Hi Pascal & JohnFrom the manual (https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:carlisle): "A small number of the Class 6 trains in the timetable may have been marshalled with speed-limited stock in the formation. These trains will enter the sim late then run at reduced maximum speed and do not maintain their timetables. A warning message is given if one of the restricted speed formations is due to enter the sim. However, the message has not been passed on from Control so the trains will still show as scheduled to their normal timetable. The signaller will have to take appropriate action to minimise the delay to other trains." “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 26/06/2021 at 14:08 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: TimTamToe |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 26/06/2021 at 20:26 #140214 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
Ah I checked the thread but missed that in the manual...I'll get my coat John! G Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/12/2021 at 18:14 #142947 | |
Bonan
55 posts |
This is by far my favourite Simsig simualation and timetable, maybe because it remainds a lot of my old workplace in the Borlänge PSB in Sweden, closed in 2020. Anyway, something that I've been wondering is if it's correct that the 87-hauled London-Scotland expresses are restricted to 100 mph? When was the limit raised to 110? In the sim, they seem to generally run a few minutes late even if given a clear run. Swedish driver and part-time signaller Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/12/2021 at 18:51 #142948 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Bonan in post 142947 said:This is by far my favourite Simsig simualation and timetable, maybe because it remainds a lot of my old workplace in the Borlänge PSB in Sweden, closed in 2020.Without doing some digging the max. speed of Clo.87 locos were raised between 1982 & by 1985 they were permitted to run at 110mph. The one thing you need to realise when playing Carlisle & that 1979-1980 TT is that Tom[the devloper] created the gradients over the sim & as a result alot of testing was done by John(postal) to amend the train types so that the train could maintain time over the route via Shap. Obviously since then SimSig loader has gone through several updates & whether some trains can be enhanced to run over that sim is a question I don't have the answer to. I'm too busy writing other timetables to spend the time testing the capabilities of the latest loader version to see if the train running can be improved upon. Maybe one day. I've still got alot of updates to do with that timetable & again its in the queue which atm doesn't seem to be getting smaller. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: lazzer |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/12/2021 at 19:46 #142949 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
Bonan in post 142947 said:This is by far my favourite Simsig simualation and timetable, maybe because it remainds a lot of my old workplace in the Borlänge PSB in Sweden, closed in 2020.When they got rid of the Mk1 BG / RMB from the Mk3 'London' sets ? The (later) limits were from the stock not the loco. The XC trains remained 100mph Mk2 / Mk1 whether an 81 or an 87 on top Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 16/12/2021 at 23:17 #142955 | |
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Bonan
55 posts |
I think I've read somewhere that a small number of Mk1 BG and restaurant coaches were actually cleared for 110 mph on the WCML services until Mk3 stock were fully available. Might be incorrect though, but either way it would have been 100 mpg in 1980 according to the post above. Swedish driver and part-time signaller Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 17/12/2021 at 08:56 #142958 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
I had an idea - maybe Pascal can confirm? - that it was possible to clear Mk 1s for 110mph, but Mk 2s couldn't have their maximum speed raised for technical reasons.
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 17/12/2021 at 09:49 #142960 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
kbarber in post 142958 said:I had an idea - maybe Pascal can confirm? - that it was possible to clear Mk 1s for 110mph, but Mk 2s couldn't have their maximum speed raised for technical reasons.Keith I think you've made a good point there as I can't remember working a train or having one during my time in the controls whereby Mk.2 coaches were allowed to run at 110mph, except those Mk.2 coaches used by the Technical Department at Derby RTC. In any event the other point is that those Mk.1 vehicles with the maximum speeds raised all had B4 bogies which look the same as those on Mk.2 coaches, but as you say due to technical reasons there max speed has always remained at 100mph. I'll make some enquiries next time I go to the railway club in Walsall in January. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 29/12/2021 at 17:10 #143183 | |
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Dionysusnu
577 posts |
Is 6M34 the return working of 6M29? Identical consist, identical but reversed route, loaded/unloaded swapped. If so, it seems to be missing a re-entry rule to not depart before 6M29 arrives. I had 6M29 running 37 late, and had to hold 6M34 from entering for quite a while, to avoid a mexican standoff on the London Road Jn chord.
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 29/12/2021 at 18:09 #143185 | |
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postal
5264 posts
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Dionysusnu in post 143183 said:Is 6M34 the return working of 6M29? Identical consist, identical but reversed route, loaded/unloaded swapped. If so, it seems to be missing a re-entry rule to not depart before 6M29 arrives. I had 6M29 running 37 late, and had to hold 6M34 from entering for quite a while, to avoid a mexican standoff on the London Road Jn chord.Good spot. However, it probably needs a rule that 0M34B must not enter as this is the light engine that takes the train back to Earles Sdgs. If that enters and goes into Upperby Sdgs before 6M29 arrives there would need to be an additional shunt move to bring the loco back out of the Sidings to reverse onto the train and form the back working. It is unlikely that there will be any TT update any time soon as Pascal has some work to do to tidy up the loco allocations now that he has some copies of relevant loco diagrams in his archive, after which there is a full scale re-write of the shunt moves required as local information from staff working at Carlisle about the time of the TT has come to hand. These revised shunt moves can only be written if the crossover at the South end of the Wall Siding is added to the sim (and this is unlikely given the age of the sim and lack of adherence to current standards in some parts of the sim).  That is not to stop anyone adding a new rule to stop 0M34B from entering until 6M29 has left the sim in their own copy of the TT. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 29/12/2021 at 18:28 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 29/12/2021 at 19:11 #143186 | |
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Dionysusnu
577 posts |
0M34B arrives in Upperby Yard just one minute after 6M29 enters the sim from Howe & Co. So I don't think that's right either.
Last edited: 29/12/2021 at 19:12 by Dionysusnu Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 29/12/2021 at 19:38 #143187 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
Dionysusnu in post 143183 said:Is 6M34 the return working of 6M29? Identical consist, identical but reversed route, loaded/unloaded swapped. If so, it seems to be missing a re-entry rule to not depart before 6M29 arrives. I had 6M29 running 37 late, and had to hold 6M34 from entering for quite a while, to avoid a mexican standoff on the London Road Jn chord.It is, however considering 6M29 arrives at 06:00 and 6M34 departs at 06:14, allowing 14 minutes for shunting and discharge (which isn't going to happen!) I would suggest 6M29 brings a set of loaded tanks which are deposited in the Cement Sidings and then discharged during the day at the customers leisure, and shunted to another siding if required by the pilot, before returning the following day as 6M34 and so on and so on. As a result, while it is the back working, it isn't the same set or loco that works the train back immediately. I'd therefore suggest no change is required in this case. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 29/12/2021 at 19:40 by jc92 Reason: Clarity of info Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Dionysusnu, postal |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 29/12/2021 at 19:53 #143188 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
kbarber in post 142958 said:I had an idea - maybe Pascal can confirm? - that it was possible to clear Mk 1s for 110mph, but Mk 2s couldn't have their maximum speed raised for technical reasons.Checking a Platform 5 book dated 1992 Mk1 & Mk2 Bogies (not to be confused with the coach itself) are rated for 90mph, but can run at 100mph under certain circumstances, Commonwealth bogies are rated for 100mph, B4s are rated for 100mph, however Certain BGs are rated for 110mph with special maintenance. B5s are rated for 100mph and B10s for 125mph. # as B10s were only fitted to Mk3s, it makes sense that both Mk1s and Mk2s were limited to 100 by the quality of their bogies (the technical issue you mentioned), while the Mk3s were limited to 110mph due to the loco on the front and line speed. The exception being the NHA BGs cleared for 110mph which are Parcels sector vehicles. I don't have an early enough book to confirm if these were previously used as passenger BG's at the time of this timetable, but I'd imagine the "special maintenance" was put in place to keep Parcels and Mail moving quickly. hopefully someone in the know can confirm or deny. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 29/12/2021 at 20:05 #143189 | |
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Dionysusnu
577 posts |
Noticed a small typo - the note on 6S53MO and 6S53MX spells "will from 6S53", which is supposed to be "will form 6S53"
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 30/12/2021 at 11:13 #143191 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
jc92 in post 143188 said:kbarber in post 142958 said:I had an idea - maybe Pascal can confirm? - that it was possible to clear Mk 1s for 110mph, but Mk 2s couldn't have their maximum speed raised for technical reasons.Checking a Platform 5 book dated 1992 Thank you Joe, that makes a lot of sense. I'm pretty certain I recall Mk IIIs + a Mk I BG as a very common formation passing the Brent, which would make it 1983 - 85. I don't think there were any Mk IIIs with guard's compartments or brake valves (someone correct me if I'm wrong please), so a 'special maintenance' BG would have been a necessity until the requirement to have a brake vehicle in a train was dropped altogether. That they went to Parcels on sectorisation makes sense, of course, but I suspect that wasn't the original reason Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 30/12/2021 at 20:44 #143199 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
kbarber in post 143191 said:My memory agrees that that was a common LH formation on the WCML. I don't have any records, though. Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 30/12/2021 at 22:29 #143200 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
For the actual loco hauled trains in the Carlisle 1979-1980 TT the formations were taken from the actual BR LMR Passenger Train Marshalling Book for 1979-1980. Which details the actual booked formation of all the loco hauled services that originated, terminated & passed through the LMR. This publication was issued every year & all former BR Regions had there own copy. Former Nuneaton PSB signal woman Natalie Jones has written an in depth article[available to download from the Loco Hauled Coaching Stock Group which I have a copy covering all WCML formations & diagram numbers for the year 1986-1987. The document also lists the overnight sleeper train formationsd & the motorail services too. I recommned reading it as it also covers what coaching stock is based at Euston Downside, Wembley CSD, Oxley(Wolverhampton), Longsight(Manchester), Edge Hill(Liverpool) & Carlisle Upperby depots. I've got a vivid memory returning from Stockport to London Euston in 1979 behind 87101 hauling Mk.3 set with a BG on the rear running via Macclesfield & Stoke.
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| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 30/12/2021 at 23:05 #143201 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
A 1978 photo, mk1 buffet and BG in a mainly mk3 set passing through the Lune valley. http://www.gensheet.co.uk/photo2L/87_lune_06-78.jpg Bill Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 31/12/2021 at 06:43 #143207 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
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"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 31/12/2021 at 06:44 by jc92 Reason: Posted in error Log in to reply |
| Carlisle 1979-1980 Timetable 24/04/2022 at 02:35 #146256 | |
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Dionysusnu
577 posts |
In the thursday timetable, 5M70 is scheduled to reverse at CE295 at the same time 1M18 should leave platform 4, which conflicts. Is this an intended error, up to the signaller to work around, or was a mistake made in entering 1M18's platform? It makes more sense for it to use platform 1 which is empty around this time.
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