Manchester South FAQ

Further issue - trains entering from Northwich South Jn

There seems to be something preventing trains entering from Northwich if a train has previously used the line from Sandbach northbound. Using the attached file, starting at 00:00 northbound trains work fine, but trains due to enter at Northwich never appear. With a start time of 02:40 the southbound train due at 02.41MX works fine.

Further issue - trains entering from Northwich South Jn

There seems to be something preventing trains entering from Northwich if a train has previously used the line from Sandbach northbound. Using the attached file, starting at 00:00 northbound trains work fine, but trains due to enter at Northwich never appear. With a start time of 02:40 the southbound train due at 02.41MX works fine.

EDIT - one other item noted. The line codes when timetabling heading south from Sandbach have FL/SL as options, though onscreen designations are Up/Down Wilmslow for the fast/ passenger lines and up/down Manchester Independent for the slow/ goods lines as per the Sectional Appendix. Deliberate to make timetabling easier?

Problem with 6Z07 on DN Middlewich. It comes to a stand just short of the access to British Salt Siding and shows as stopped at signal (there is no signal there on the screen). Eventually rings in then proceeds when authorized to pass signal at danger.

This is running original release of sim. Save available if needed.

Cheers

Attached save has 6Z07 on the Middlewich single line. When run for about 5mins, 6z07 reproducibly comes to a stand with status "stopped at signal British Salt Siding GF" and should then call in to report this at 06.17 sim time.

Note, I am indeed running sim v1.1 but continuing a session that believe was started on the original release.

Am also chained with Stockport and noticed that when TD's are transferred in either direction there is quite a delay before clicking on the APPR berth calls up the relevant TT.

In the attached save I can't route 1V39 from 4390 (Stockport up slow) to 4388 saying subroute locked in opposite direction. It doesn't immediately look like this should be a conflict.

belly buster in post 114566 said:

In the attached save I can't route 1V39 from 4390 (Stockport up slow) to 4388 saying subroute locked in opposite direction. It doesn't immediately look like this should be a conflict.

From the manual:
Cheadle Hulme

There are restrictions on which routes can be set simultaneously over the junction. This is down to the positioning of Points 5250. When trying to set such routes, you will get a message along the lines of “No Overlap Available”, or “Subroute Locked in Opposite Direction”.

For example, if you have a route set, Signal 385 to Signal 391, along with the route, Signal 4390 to Signal 4388, you cannot set the route, Signal 4125 to Signal 4395.

====
As for why in sim you get the message relating to no overlap being available. For all intents and purposes the signal concerned have a longer (but hidden) overlap which enforces this. This is obviousally hidden, and the status of the tracks in said overlap are also not considerd.


James

Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.

whatlep in post 114852 said:

Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.

Without 100% accurate information on the ground frame, so, I'll admit its bit of a comprimise, to release, there is a timer of I believe its 2 mins (Not in a position to be able to confirm right now). After the track has been occupied for that amount of time, the ground frame can be released as per normal. Note though that the route lights may not drop after this time

James

pedroathome in post 114868 said:

whatlep in post 114852 said:

Can one of the developers/ timetablers please explain the intended sequence of activities needed to get a train from Sandbach to British Salt's sidings at Middlewich? Also whether an inbound train should be timetabled with a "stop" or "pass" timing at the ground frame?

So far, I can find no other way than first releasing the ground frame and setting the route at the sidings, then talking an incoming train past signal 3729 at Sandbach. If a route is set past 3729 to Middlewich loop, it locks out the ground frame from being used (as I would expect without a "lock in" release button at the GF). If a train is talked past 3729 without the ground frame released, it stops at the GF and reports "held by conditions" if given a "stop" timing, or proceeds merrily onwards if given a "pass" timing.

Attached file can be used as a means of investigation. Check 6M46 on the Down Independent near Sandbach.

Without 100% accurate information on the ground frame, so, I'll admit its bit of a comprimise, to release, there is a timer of I believe its 2 mins (Not in a position to be able to confirm right now). After the track has been occupied for that amount of time, the ground frame can be released as per normal. Note though that the route lights may not drop after this time

James

Agreed that the GF does become available after a wait (no call in from the driver), but the train appears to remain "held by conditions". See attached file.

It's possible to create ACoA on MS4312 (Wilmslow P2 Up Starter) when running opposite way towards Alderley Edge:

4134 Wilmslow Home (Up Styal) was running auto, set off but showing red for protection. 4134 was on. Mainline points normalized.

Setting 4312 to 3880, sets 4312 to Yellow as expected. Setting 3880 to 3876 keeps 4312 at restricted Yellow.

Then, setting 3876 to 3874 (Alderley Edge DP down starter) changes 4312 to green.

But setting crossover route 3874 to auto 4098 causes 4312 to revert back to YY whilst reversing points P5123/5214 are unproved, then goes back to green.

I presume this is correct behaviour with the overlap over the pointwork, but unhelpful :)

Thanks
Jamie

Have you done anything else involving the train, or to anything ahead of it, prior to the message being received?

Could you upload a saved game made immediately after the message?

Which particular signals are causing problems?