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London Bridge April 2012

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London Bridge April 2012 12/09/2019 at 16:17 #120366
TimTamToe
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664 posts 		Thanks for all of your patience, this timetable has now been completed and uploaded ready for mod approval.

This tt should be run in 2010-14 mode and has midnight and 0445 multi seed starts available. It is advisable to have class 5 as non-ARS (see notes below) and can also be chained to version 6 of my Victoria Central & Eastern April 2012 tt's (once approved for uploading)

The notes for this tt can be found on the general F4 tab of the timetable and also below. It is advisable to read these before starting.

Any issues or problems let me know here in this thread or PM me.

Cheers
Gareth

London Bridge April 2012 By Gareth (TimTamToe)

This Timetable should be run in 2010-2014 Mode and has multi seed starts of midnight and 04:45 available. It can be chained to Victoria Central April 2012 v6 and Victoria South Eastern April 2012 v6 both written by myself. It is also advised for correct regulation of ECS movements that Class 5 trains are run non-ARS.

My thanks go to Geoff Mayo for developing SimSig and the London Bridge sim; Mark (Gwasanaethau) and Brian for their help with the testing and helping to keep me sane.

I would also like to thanks the John's (Meld & Postal) Mark C and Jamie for their help with the multiseed conversion and chaining.

Below is a full description of the notes for this timetable which you are advised to read before starting.

I hope you enjoy this very challenging timetable.

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"License"
*********
Although thorough testing has been done on the TT, I will update this timetable to reflect any issues discovered after release. I therefore respectfully ask if you find any issues to either post them on the SimSig forum, or PM me. I will then fix them in due course and re-release in my own timescales. Please do not upload your own fixes to this TT; Others releasing fixes and updates, while well meaning, messes up my own version tracking and change log, and duplicates work I've potentially already done.

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Description
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This timetable for London Bridge is based on a generic Thursday in April 2012 and should be started in 2010-2014 mode. The timetable runs from 00:00 to 27:00 and includes a midnight and 04:45 multi seed start times. It can be chained with my Victoria Central April 2012 v6 timetable and Victoria South Eastern April 2012 v6 (It will not chain to earlier versions of these).

Timings used are from Open Train Times for passenger and ECS movements and Network Rail's WTT for the freight. The passenger stock used to form services are from the various diagrams / carriage working notices from the relevant operators.

The platforming at London Bridge, Cannon St and Charing Cross are as true to life as possible however platforming clashes being rectified (during normal running).

Network Rail's Rules of the Route have also been used in the writing of this timetable in the form of dwell times. This involves the minimum turnarounds allowed for services dependant on their location and stock used and also times for stock to join / divide.

At London Bridge (Low Level):

12 min turnaround for mainline services
7 min turnaround for suburban services
4 min turnaround for Atlantic line services

At Cannon St and Charing Cross turnaround times are dependant on service length but generally between 6 and 9 mins.

At Hayes & Bromley North dwells are between 4 and 6 minutes depending on the stock and length of the service.


Timetable rules have also been used; to prevent some services entering the sim before the service they are formed from has left the sim area. These will vary dependant on the route of the train and these rules will only have an impact in times of severe disruption but generally:

  • 18 minutes for trains terminating at or on circulars via Slade Green
  • 25 minutes for circular trains via Sidcup and Greenwich
  • 30 minutes for circular trains via Greenwich and Sidcup
  • 30 minutes for trains terminating at Dartford - can vary between 18 and 39 depending on route
  • 19 minutes for SLL trains towards Victoria (Central) (via Atlantic Lines) 2Nxx
  • 16 minutes fast trains (SN) to and from West Croydon
  • 20 minutes for trains to and from Orpington
  • 5 minutes for London Overground trains to Crystal Palace
  • 18 minutes for London Overground trains to West Croydon

    SimSig-nallers are advised that in times of disruption, turning services short of their destination is often necessary in order to provide an even service. The rules should give you a clue as to the associated next workings. Some of the common short-trips are outlined below.

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    Hints & Tips
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  • To ensure correct regulation and that ARS doesn't set some routes too early it is advised to run Class 5 trains (ECS) as non-ARS so you can hold them in suitable locations if running early. This is especially true around Grove Park Depot, where ARS running will set ECS trains on to the mainline very early and cause a lot of disruption for yourself and potentially end up blocking lines into the termini stations.

  • Try to get trains arriving (except in major disruption) in their correct order so you do not block the lines approaching London Bridge, Charing Cross and Cannon St.

  • Some trains are booked to share platforms. These will usually have the activity PS:*X**.

  • Watch for the 2Nxx Inner South Londons. They have very short turnarounds.

  • The Sandite workings (3Sxx & 8Yxx) MUST follow their booked path to ensure all lines are treated. It is also recommended to run these non-ARS.


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    Known Issues
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  • At time of release there are a couple of ARS errors around Grove Park. These are as follows:
    ? ARS will not set a route from sig 309 to sig 315 (from Hither Green towards the depot via Washer. This needs to be set manually where ARS will then continue.

    ? 5J02 early morning from Grove Park Depot to Bromley North MUST run non-ARS otherwise it will not get to the branch (ARS sets on to mainline)

  • The slot to Blackfriars from London Bridge / Cannon St does not de-illuminate after the passage of a train.

  • Close following trains around Parks Bridge Jcn on the slow lines Londonbound may cause adverse aspect change at sig 290

    All of these are reported on Mantis

    *****************
    Version History
    *****************

    September 2019 v2

  • First public release
    •
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    The following users said thank you: rodney30, Philo, bri2808, Mikhail
    London Bridge April 2012 12/09/2019 at 18:34 #120368
    Meld
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    1111 posts     		Gareth - Try Hither Green > Washer 3/4 > Washer 1/2 > Grove Park CSD

    Bromley Park P1 line code V ??
    Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
    Last edited: 12/09/2019 at 18:41 by Meld
    Reason: None given
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    London Bridge April 2012 13/09/2019 at 08:07 #120375
    Giantray
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    347 posts     		Looking forward to this coming out especially as it has a 0445 start time. This is/was generally the time services started up in the LB area after all Blocks had been given up. Having worked LBASC for 25 years, I do miss the old layout so this will be time to recall those times. Saying that, the new "Line of Route" layout at TBROC is just as fun and interesting to use.
    Professionalism mean nothing around a bunch of Amateur wannabees!
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    The following user said thank you: TimTamToe
    London Bridge April 2012 13/09/2019 at 15:42 #120381
    TimTamToe
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    664 posts     		Meld in post 120368 said:
    Gareth - Try Hither Green > Washer 3/4 > Washer 1/2 > Grove Park CSD

    Bromley Park P1 line code V ??
    Hi John,

    Can't remember what path I used via washers think its Hither Green > Lee Spur Jcn > Depot which validates fine and ARS sets apart from the one bit between those two signals.

    For the Bromley North, It comes class 5 depot (Bramdean) to Grove Park P1 and then class 2 to Bromley North. But only SL or FL can be selected in the line column from the depot to GP. If I chose V it doesn't validate (says no route from depot)

    Gareth
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    London Bridge April 2012 13/09/2019 at 16:59 #120382
    Meld
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    1111 posts     		TimTamToe in post 120381 said:
    Meld in post 120368 said:
    Gareth - Try Hither Green > Washer 3/4 > Washer 1/2 > Grove Park CSD

    Bromley Park P1 line code V ??
    Hi John,

    Can't remember what path I used via washers think its Hither Green > Lee Spur Jcn > Depot which validates fine and ARS sets apart from the one bit between those two signals.

    For the Bromley North, It comes class 5 depot (Bramdean) to Grove Park P1 and then class 2 to Bromley North. But only SL or FL can be selected in the line column from the depot to GP. If I chose V it doesn't validate (says no route from depot)

    Gareth
    Horndean - Grove Park, if its via New Cross look at 5Y08 (W35522) in the 09 TT

    You dont need Lee Spur Jcn in the TT - direct Hitther Green to Washer 3/4 validates then Washer 1/2 and on to the depot - ARS will then route through the Washer
    Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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    London Bridge April 2012 13/09/2019 at 17:34 #120384
    rodney30
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    165 posts     		first of all thanks for resarching this and making this timetable.

    i have just started the 04:45 seed. i noticed 5P02 doesnt step up its tt.

    many thanks

    rodney30
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    London Bridge April 2012 13/09/2019 at 17:54 #120386
    TimTamToe
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    664 posts     		rodney30 in post 120384 said:
    first of all thanks for resarching this and making this timetable.

    i have just started the 04:45 seed. i noticed 5P02 doesnt step up its tt.

    many thanks

    rodney30
    Thanks Rodney
    I've found the issue, it was do to with the signal I'd seeded it at and first location in the tt. Corrected for the next update.

    In the meantime on start up (pause) go into the tt for 5P02 via the F2 menu and select next / current location as London Bridge and it'll step up fine.

    Gareth
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    The following user said thank you: rodney30
    London Bridge April 2012 14/09/2019 at 12:41 #120414
    rodney30
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    165 posts     		hello

    sorry to say i have found a couple of issues with the 04:45 seed tt start.

    2E02 04:50 Charing Cross to Dartford doesn't seed at Charing Cross Plat 1. so this train is missing.

    5P06 05:22 London Bridge to Tattenham Corner doesn't seed at London Bridge Plat 14. so this train is missing.

    rodney30
    Last edited: 14/09/2019 at 12:42 by rodney30
    Reason: None given
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    London Bridge April 2012 14/09/2019 at 14:57 #120418
    TimTamToe
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    664 posts     		rodney30 in post 120414 said:
    hello

    sorry to say i have found a couple of issues with the 04:45 seed tt start.

    2E02 04:50 Charing Cross to Dartford doesn't seed at Charing Cross Plat 1. so this train is missing.

    5P06 05:22 London Bridge to Tattenham Corner doesn't seed at London Bridge Plat 14. so this train is missing.

    rodney30
    Thanks for these Rodney. Sorry that you've found a couple of errors in the 0445 start - my errors (testers off the hook for 0445 issues) - missing a couple of seeds when scanning through the times and locations from the midnight start.

    I think the 2E02 will cause 2B06 not to enter due to a rule but I think that is the only knock on effect.

    Corrected for the next update.

    As an aside those that want to run full ARS (including the class 5's) if you collar the following signals but just keep an eye on departure times when you're scanning it will prevent the ECS being released early on to the mainline. 1316 & 1317 (Grove Park Up Sdgs) 1325 (Grove Park Down Sdgs country end / Bramdean) and 1324 (shed)

    Gareth
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    London Bridge April 2012 05/10/2019 at 10:06 #120726
    Andrew G
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    552 posts     		Gareth,

    Query on the impact of rules on the 0445 start.

    For example 7M60/7M60FF2 is scheduled to enter Bramdean 41-45 L1304 at 04:50. However, there is a rule that this must appear 240 minutes after 7M60/7M60FF1 leaves the area.

    As the first iteration of the train will not leave the area if you use the 0445 seed start time it looks like the second iteration will not enter the simulation, unless I am missing something.

    Is my thinking correct?

    Andrew
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    London Bridge April 2012 05/10/2019 at 10:31 #120727
    TimTamToe
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    664 posts     		Andrew G in post 120726 said:
    Gareth,

    Query on the impact of rules on the 0445 start.

    For example 7M60/7M60FF2 is scheduled to enter Bramdean 41-45 L1304 at 04:50. However, there is a rule that this must appear 240 minutes after 7M60/7M60FF1 leaves the area.

    As the first iteration of the train will not leave the area if you use the 0445 seed start time it looks like the second iteration will not enter the simulation, unless I am missing something.

    Is my thinking correct?

    Andrew
    Good spot Andrew. Getting my head round the new multiseeds, has caused a few things to slip through.

    I'll add a new variant and so it works for the 0445 start in the next update

    Cheers
    Gareth
    Last edited: 05/10/2019 at 10:31 by TimTamToe
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    London Bridge April 2012 05/10/2019 at 18:53 #120742
    KymriskaDraken
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    963 posts     		Ignore this
    Last edited: 05/10/2019 at 19:14 by KymriskaDraken
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    London Bridge April 2012 23/05/2020 at 20:11 #127052
    Javelin395
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    272 posts     		Gareth, not played any of your excellent TT's for some time now (grew up in Ashford, Kent so love the Southern sims but now live in Sheffield and therefore spend more time playing the Yorkshire sims).

    Anyways, just having a bash at your London Bridge 2012 effort (00:00 start) and found that 5G02 is too long for P14 at London Bridge. Is this one of those true to life errors deliberately left in to keep us on our tim tam toes ?
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    The following user said thank you: TimTamToe
    London Bridge April 2012 26/05/2020 at 16:30 #127136
    TimTamToe
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    664 posts     		Good to hear from you Alan, and thanks for your comments.

    Good spot. Might have to revoke some beer privilege's of my testers

    It's either a true to life error or one of my own...not necessarily left in deliberately though :doh:

    I might see about correcting in a future update but at quick glance there's free platform nearby that's long enough

    Cheers
    Gareth
    Last edited: 26/05/2020 at 16:31 by TimTamToe
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    London Bridge April 2012 26/05/2020 at 19:50 #127142
    bri2808
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    162 posts     		TimTamToe in post 127136 said:
    Good to hear from you Alan, and thanks for your comments.

    Good spot. Might have to revoke some beer privilege's of my testers

    It's either a true to life error or one of my own...not necessarily left in deliberately though :doh:

    I might see about correcting in a future update but at quick glance there's free platform nearby that's long enough

    Cheers
    Gareth
    As its been so long since I tested it and I dont wanna lose my beer... I'm gonna say I told you. You'll never remember ;-)
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