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| SimSig down, what happened? 19/12/2020 at 20:11 #134919 | |
Albert
1315 posts |
Dick in post 134911 said:You are all missing the point. It should not be a requirement for an internet connection or the server to be available in order to access sims that have been paid for and locked to a machine. End of.The point is that people had internet, so the server was reachable but just giving erroneous responses. If you had not connected to the net at all you wouldn't have an issue, but you couldn't know that. AJP in games Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 19/12/2020 at 20:16 #134920 | |
Hap
1039 posts |
Folks. The issue regarding dynamic licencing will be looked into. Again, Sorry it's happened. It's been addressed, it's been heard and it will be looked into. I don't know what more you want. We have all been affected by something being down every now and again. ISP, other game services on other platforms, train delays. The team know about it, it's been explained and we're all back up and running. We live, learn, adapt and move on. How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue Log in to reply The following users said thank you: mfloyd, ajax103, Dick, Mikhail, bri2808, Trainfan344, as1981 |
| SimSig down, what happened? 19/12/2020 at 20:28 #134921 | |
Dick
387 posts |
Albert in post 134919 said:Dick in post 134911 said:You are all missing the point. It should not be a requirement for an internet connection or the server to be available in order to access sims that have been paid for and locked to a machine. End of.The point is that people had internet, so the server was reachable but just giving erroneous responses. That is totally irrelevant. Why is everybody trying to make excuses for a system that is fundamentally flawed. Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 19/12/2020 at 20:30 #134922 | |
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Dick
387 posts |
Hap in post 134920 said:Folks. The issue regarding dynamic licencing will be looked into.Thank you, at least somebody is taking it seriously and not trying to defend the indefensible. Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 19/12/2020 at 20:30 #134923 | |
danners430
135 posts |
Dick in post 134921 said:That is totally irrelevant. Why is everybody trying to make excuses for a system that is fundamentally flawed.It is being looked in to, as Geoff has said multiple times. In other words, he is doing precisely what you asked - investigating how he could fundamentally de-flaw it. Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 19/12/2020 at 20:31 #134924 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2080 posts |
Dick in post 134902 said:I think there could be some interesting questions asked by trading standards if that isn't resolved!You’ve got more chance of Covid-19 being cured tomorrow by decree of Donald Trump in the same statement that he accepts he lost the election to Joe Biden. For starters, UK Trading Standards have no jurisdiction over SimSig as it is owned by an American company. Next, this is the first occurrence of this problem and it was dealt with in a timely manner. Last edited: 19/12/2020 at 20:32 by Stephen Fulcher Reason: None given Log in to reply The following users said thank you: hotwellian, BarryM |
| SimSig down, what happened? 19/12/2020 at 20:33 #134926 | |
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Dick
387 posts |
danners430 in post 134923 said:Dick in post 134921 said:No he hasn't said it multiple times, he has said it once as an afterthought in an edited post.That is totally irrelevant. Why is everybody trying to make excuses for a system that is fundamentally flawed.It is being looked in to, as Geoff has said multiple times. In other words, he is doing precisely what you asked - investigating how he could fundamentally de-flaw it. Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 19/12/2020 at 20:40 #134927 | |
Steamer
3985 posts |
I think the error page said something about said page being able to be customised. Did I read that correctly, and if so, would it be possible to customise the error page with a statement to the effect of 'Disconnect from the internet to continue to play sims with locked license?' That would hopefully allow at least some users to continue should the issue ever arise again in future. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Hap |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 00:35 #134937 | |
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304033
57 posts |
One thinks that with the now functionality of licences requiring to 'phone home', then the server hosting the licence lookup needs to be online 24/7 and seperated from the website, ie not all bundled onto one server. And maybe with failover? Or failover for the website itself?? I agree that it was only a small downtime however due the nature that the licencing now operates there is a significant flaw and its not acceptable for a user to 'turn off their internet' etc in this day and age. Or build in some mechanism that allows a grace period from the 'last check' of the licences. I didnt really want to say this, but i'm quite astonished actually at the level of sycophancy displayed by certain members within this thread. It is a 'forum' if you hadnt noticed. Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 01:05 #134938 | |
jc92
3687 posts |
Dick in post 134921 said:Rereading this thread, no ones defending the existing system or making excuses. Everyone acknowledges there was an issue here and it's being looked into. What else can Geoff do at this point but review and make an amendment to improve the system based on consumer feedback? 304033 in post 134937 said: A fair point in principle, however any gaming system that relies on a server is susceptible to this sort of issue (Simsig certainly isn't on its own). As a consumer the important thing to me is that such outages are infrequent and quickly resolved. The same can be said of things like broadband and mobile cell coverage. 304033 in post 134937 said: That being the case, should people not also be allowed to defend Simsigs position here without being classed as a Sychophant? I don't see sychophancy, I see people who agree there's an issue to resolve and/or lessons can be learned, but also feel that there isn't really much more at this point that can be done. My day job is as a complaint handler and I regularly deal with IT outage and failure complaints, among many other things (and trust me, these issues cause WAY more impact than being unable to play a game). I can't say in this case that Geoff's response is anything other than acceptable or indeed the exact response I would give. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 03:08 #134939 | |
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Hap
1039 posts |
304033 in post 134937 said:One thinks that with the now functionality of licences requiring to 'phone home', then the server hosting the licence lookup needs to be online 24/7 and seperated from the website, ie not all bundled onto one server. And maybe with failover? Or failover for the website itself??Hi 304033. The issue regarding the licenses has been acknowledged. The SimSig team have seen the issue and are working to remedy it. Granted that it may not be acceptable for a users to adapt their process to access their sim, BUT it has been and IS an alternative to resolve their issue until the team can resolve the issue. I want to make clear that your input has not been pushed aside, on the contrary. This helps adapt the system to make the end user experience as flawless as possible, and with that we ask you to bare with SimSig. Literally, no one can be perfect. Bare with SimSig, and we'll try to push out fixes and updates as soon as the team possibly can. We are not ignoring you. Craig. How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue Log in to reply The following users said thank you: tynie123, hotwellian |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 11:38 #134944 | |
tynie123
234 posts |
Totally agree, have had to deal with more than my share of moaning Minnie's. And believe you me, i aint no sycophant. I was surprised at some of the vitriol on here yesterday. But i guess it is a sign of the times. I wish you all, well most of you, all the best for the season. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: geswedey, GeoffM |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 12:46 #134948 | |
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geswedey
202 posts |
Couldn't agree more about the moaning minnies on here, it was not the end of the world to be unable to operate a sim for a few hours, after all it is not as though there a rather more things going on to worry about.
Glyn Calvert ACIRO Log in to reply The following users said thank you: tynie123, Stephen Fulcher, danners430, jc92 |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 14:33 #134951 | |
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Dick
387 posts |
Oh dear, more people missing the point. It is not about being unable to operate a sim for a few hours, it is about how Simsig works. Simsig is not a server based game, the sims are downloaded to customer's machines therefore should be available at all times with or without an internet connection, with or without the Simsig server being operational. To allow dynamic allocation of licenses to machines, the system was changed and required continuous access to the Simsig server to operate. Anybody not wishing to avail themselves of this facility had the option to lock a license(s) to a particular machine obviating the need to be connected to the server. It is this functionality which has failed and is unacceptable.
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: 304033 |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 15:57 #134969 | |
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geswedey
202 posts |
if the world and its inhabitants and processes were perfect and no human mistakes or system faults ever occurred wouldn't it be lovely, however it isn't and never will be. we all strive not make mistakes but we do and unexpected System faults will also occur and they could and do have unintended consequences as we saw yesterday. if we were trying to run an important service and there were life threatening circumstances associated with a server fault we would have something to be concerned about, but we don't we just couldn't run a sim for a few hours, the powers that be will look for solutions and hopefully it won't happen again. However I do understand the point you are making. Glyn Calvert ACIRO Last edited: 20/12/2020 at 16:09 by geswedey Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Dick |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 16:11 #134972 | |
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mjkerr
195 posts |
I did not have any problems (online loader) and was able to continue my testing of SimSig I just could not view this website DELETED Last edited: 20/12/2020 at 16:11 by mjkerr Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 16:19 #134974 | |
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jc92
3687 posts |
Dick in post 134951 said:It is this functionality which has failed and is unacceptable.For the Nth time, noone disagrees with you. You made this point several posts previously and its now well established fact steps are being taken to prevent a reoccurrence. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 16:29 #134975 | |
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Albert
1315 posts |
I think what Dick says is more of a rant towards the model that many software companies have adopted in recent years where you don't own your software anymore but have a subscription to get access to a server instead.
AJP in games Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 20:04 #135002 | |
pedroathome
915 posts |
Splodge in post 134990 said:Manchester South had a critical failure which lasted around four days. The only way through it was emergency special working, with all points clipped and scotched with only one route permitted (points were not being wound). Routes were set from Cheadle Hulme to Prestbury, and Styal to Sandbach (independent lines) so passenger trains could run via Stoke and freight via Styal and Crewe. No passenger service was provided through Wilmslow or towards Crewe.This is one way to make me panic, thinking what issue in the sim was that. I forgot about the real life issue a few weeks back Log in to reply |
| SimSig down, what happened? 20/12/2020 at 20:52 #135004 | |
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bri2808
162 posts |
Let me just add something here that although only slightly relevant to the topic it needs to be said. When the new loader was first released, it had issues for people like myself who suffer from epilepsy whilst playing the Sims (All of them) - I highlighted it to Geoff and he said he would look in to it... Unlike big companies where it would normally be put on the back burner, within several days an update was released containing amongst other things a fix to stop the flicker. Minor to most, but a big thing for myself and perhaps others who use the sim. My point being, that if Geoff says he will look in to it, then he does and I don't see the point in the OP harping on about it without him being given a chance to come back with the solution or an update as to what exactly happened. And just because it was an edit to a post, doesn't mean it was an after thought. Currently there are lot more important things going on in the world than not being able to access a sim for a few hours!! Some would do well to get a grip and cut some slack at the moment!! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: danners430 |
| SimSig down, what happened? 21/12/2020 at 11:35 #135016 | |
MrSuttonmann
265 posts |
I have a simple question, one I can't find the answer to from the T&Cs. Am I buying the software (a purchase), or am I buying a licence to use the software (a subscription)? If the former, I expect the software to work fully offline without calling home - as SimSig used to work pre-loader. If the latter, I would expect the T&Cs to read a bit like the T&Cs for Steam. From Section 2.A of the Steam Subscriber Agreement: Quote: There is no such clause, that I can see, in the SimSig T&Cs. There is a software section, but this makes no mention of purchase, only that there may be a fee to use the software. It is not clear from this clause what "usage" is defined as. Quote: There is also no clause about termination of services, and what happens if Cajun Rail LLC should stop supporting SimSig. See section 9.C of the Steam Subscriber Agreement: Quote:
(Formerly known as manadude2) Last edited: 21/12/2020 at 11:40 by MrSuttonmann Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Dick |
| SimSig down, what happened? 21/12/2020 at 12:49 #135017 | |
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jc92
3687 posts |
Thats the terms and conditions for the forum not the simulation software which is here: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Article/Details/73 3.2 covers the outage situation being discussed and the rest should resolve the question over the purchase of a licence and ownership of software. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 21/12/2020 at 12:49 by jc92 Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: MrSuttonmann |
| SimSig down, what happened? 21/12/2020 at 17:09 #135027 | |
Chrisrail
384 posts |
So for some reason the server went down for 4- 5 hours. You were maybe inconvienienced I know I was but think of the big picture. How many hours of SimSig x Users are used on a daily basis, 1000s of hours if not manay more. What is 4-5 hours in the big picture and you have been told it is being investigated. That should be end of story.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: geswedey, danners430, Meld, bri2808, Stephen Fulcher |
| SimSig down, what happened? 21/12/2020 at 19:47 #135032 | |
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DavidSplett
142 posts |
I can see two sides to this. Personally I’m a little old-school and prefer the concept of buying something tangible. However by the same token the dynamic licenses have been very useful for me, as it means I can do Simsig on my desktop at home and also on my laptop elsewhere. We just have to hope Geoff isn’t planning to retire any time soon!
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| SimSig down, what happened? 21/12/2020 at 23:33 #135038 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
Here is a status update. The first action we took was to add another administrator to the server. This would have addressed the issue from a few days ago in mere minutes. We effectively have 24x7 coverage now, but please consider we are a very small team that occasionally happen to be away from server access at the same time, despite being 8 time zones apart. The second thing is to better handle the situation where the server is running, but degraded (as happened the other day). The Loader interpreted the responses as invalid (like a hacking attempt) but it could have handled it more gracefully. This is what we're working on at the moment and hope to have a new Loader out in the next few days. To re-iterate posts by myself and others, the above situation was a mistake, not a design flaw as has been suggested by somebody. Thirdly, the server has been set to only inform of updates, not to download them - had this been set before, the situation a few days ago would not have happened. The SimSig model is not a rental model where you pay subscription fees and never "own" the product. If we want guaranteed 24x7, 99.99% uptime kind of reliability then we would have to change to that subscription kind of model. As it is, we're at approximately 99.6% availability already for the last 3 months including the incident a few days ago. Again, apologies for the disruption. I hope this goes some way to addressing the issues. Thank you for the support here and through other mediums. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following users said thank you: 9pN1SEAp, postal, Soton_Speed, geswedey, Coco-Banana-Man, as1981, waucott, markt, jc92, bill_gensheet, danners430, Driverless, bri2808, Trainfan344, Mikhail |