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| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 03:48 #135586 | |
AlexRail575
136 posts |
It's a minor detail, but I somehow almost always try (and fail) to set the route directly from signal RL2 to RL6 because the signal the route should be set to, RL5 is on the wrong side of the track... A diagram of the box (shortly before it closed) shows the signal on the left side, as expected. Would this minor layout fix be too much to ask for? Cheers, Alex Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 04:30 #135587 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
It looks like the signal was originally on a standard post to the right of the track (per sim) but at some later date got an L-bracket signal which put the semaphore more to the middle of the track. Source 1 Source 2 SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 04:49 #135588 | |
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AlexRail575
136 posts |
Oh well that complicates things a little. The more intuitive approach would nevertheless be to have the signals there and at Abergele (real-life placement notwithstanding) on the left side (anyway, with the non-prototypical IECC layout there would be little reason to place the signals on the right side of the track - with due consideration to the fact that with the signal boxes closed, this is probably a moot point). Continuing (and in addition to the above) with the "minor annoyances": I assume the Llanrwst branch train being late because of the request stops is a feature not a bug? Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 04:59 #135590 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
AlexRail575 in post 135588 said:Continuing (and in addition to the above) with the "minor annoyances": I assume the Llanrwst branch train being late because of the request stops is a feature not a bug?The sim pre-dates request stops in SimSig. A quick glance at one of the TTs supplied shows "set down" used, so the train stops at every stop, but can leave early. I don't know how sequences of request stops are timed in real life - do they time on the basis of all stops being made, in which case why bother with request stops, or do they time assuming a portion are skipped, with possible lateness on busy days? SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 05:16 #135591 | |
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AlexRail575
136 posts |
In the loader version I am playing the trains are very clearly marked "ReqStop" at each affected station; for example (with the North Wales Coast SX 08 04 2015 0400 start); 2D11 (0624 Blaeunau to Llanduno Jn) has request stops at 6 stations.
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| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 09:06 #135593 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
GeoffM in post 135590 said:
My understanding is that, presumably as a compromise, they’re timed as normal stops but with zero dwell time. If no stop is required, they’ll get a few seconds in hand, and if a stop *is* required, they’ll lose half a minute or so. I guess that they wouldn’t be request stops in the first place if they had “busy days” though? Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 10:24 #135598 | |
Steamer
3984 posts 
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Late Turn in post 135593 said:I guess that they wouldn’t be request stops in the first place if they had “busy days” though?Unfortunately not- from what I understand, Conwy, Llanfairpwll and Valley are requested practically all the time, but still remain as request stops. There may be others. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 10:39 #135600 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts
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GeoffM in post 135587 said:It looks like the signal was originally on a standard post to the right of the track (per sim) but at some later date got an L-bracket signal which put the semaphore more to the middle of the track.The signal in the YouTube video is heading the other way, towards Chester- the video appears to have been filmed prior to the closure of Rhyl No.2 box, when both centre roads and various other lines at Rhyl were still in use. The signal you're referring to, along with the Up through line, were closed by the time Rhyl No.1 took over the whole station, which is the layout as simulated. The cantilever holding what was latterly RL5 appears to have been present in some shape or form since steam days. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 10:54 #135604 | |
jc92
3685 posts
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I agree with steamer. The video shows the north end of the station and No1 box. The cantilever has always been there. when No2 box was open. it actually had a short semaphore arm and also held a banner repeater for the up through road as well. It does appear the box diagram shows it as sat on the left rather than the right though. Edit: I've now located some photos of the old arrangement Post has attachments. Log in to view them. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 30/12/2020 at 10:59 by jc92 Reason: Added photos Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 17:29 #135643 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
Late Turn in post 135593 said:GeoffM in post 135590 said:Ah, good to know, thanks. Late Turn in post 135593 said: I guess that they wouldn’t be request stops in the first place if they had “busy days” though?I mean in the case of a one-off busy day, like some event. Obviously if they're frequently busy then the case could be made for them to be non-request stops. I don't know why Freshford (Bath-Westbury line) changed from a request to a regular stop though as I rarely saw anybody using it during my couple of years of commuting the line! SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 30/12/2020 at 17:31 #135644 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
Steamer in post 135600 said:GeoffM in post 135587 said:Oops, my mistake, apologies. I thought I had correlated it with satellite as well but clearly not!It looks like the signal was originally on a standard post to the right of the track (per sim) but at some later date got an L-bracket signal which put the semaphore more to the middle of the track.The signal in the YouTube video is heading the other way, towards Chester- the video appears to have been filmed prior to the closure of Rhyl No.2 box, when both centre roads and various other lines at Rhyl were still in use. The signal you're referring to, along with the Up through line, were closed by the time Rhyl No.1 took over the whole station, which is the layout as simulated. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 31/12/2020 at 03:46 #135686 | |
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AlexRail575
136 posts |
Re. request stops: see also this thread (back from when request stops were otherwise handled). From my position an ocean away I have no clue about prototypical operation, but looking at this (example day, I bet you can change the day and the results would be pretty similar) and the Blaneau branch trains (headcodes 2D1x) do not seem to be consistently losing time on the branches (they are otherwise late, but I don't think it can be attributed to request stops on the branch - on the day I link, the first morning service was 6 minutes late at the origin [and at the destination - not making up or losing time there], mostly because the ECS for it was over 20 minutes late; the next service was similarly delayed because of only a small allowance being given for turnover at the other end. The rest ran on time, except the final one which was delayed by a points failure). Q: is it possible to have a request stop with both departure and arrival times? because that is what the WTT gives me for some trains (mostly on the services to Holyhead)... Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 31/12/2020 at 04:13 #135687 | |
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Chromatix
190 posts |
I don't see why not, though I think it would be unusual. I view the two times as "arrive by" and "depart after"; where there is only one time specified, it applies to both meanings. Passengers rely on "arrive by" times to decide which train they need to catch to arrive at an appointment, and on "depart after" times for when they need to show up to catch that train. Of course, the WTT is different from the public timetable, but there is supposed to be *some* correspondence. Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 31/12/2020 at 04:18 #135689 | |
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AlexRail575
136 posts |
Chromatix in post 135687 said:I don't see why not, though I think it would be unusual.I was asking mostly from a simulation point of view (whether anything odd will happen in SimSig if a train has both times listed) - it doesn't throw any errors in timetable validation, to begin with, but of course that is not the only way the timetable can be wrong and require fixing... Log in to reply |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 31/12/2020 at 11:08 #135697 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts
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AlexRail575 in post 135689 said:Chromatix in post 135687 said:The supplied timetables have request stops with arrival times; they appear to work OK.I don't see why not, though I think it would be unusual.I was asking mostly from a simulation point of view (whether anything odd will happen in SimSig if a train has both times listed) - it doesn't throw any errors in timetable validation, to begin with, but of course that is not the only way the timetable can be wrong and require fixing... Generally speaking, SimSig does not require an arrival time at intermediate stops, and as I understand it the real WTT used to work like this for minor stations. Since the electronic systems came along, arrival times are now specified for all stations. SimSig can handle both. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply The following user said thank you: AlexRail575 |
| Minor annoyance - Rhyl workstation 31/12/2020 at 17:22 #135728 | |
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GeoffM
6376 posts |
If there is an arrival time specified then SimSig uses it for scoring, but that's all it's used for in terms of train movement. For ARS sims the arrival time is used to adjust the predicted berth stepping times from the previous timed location. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |