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| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 20:29 #135747 | |
bugsy
1766 posts 
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Owing to a period of inattention to timetables (my biggest failing and I don't seem to be learning), I not only sent 4J03 the wrong way, which as it happens didn't really matter, but at about the same time I routed 2P51 towards Falkirk High and Croy at Polmont Jn. instead of towards Falkirk Grahamston and Stirling. I didn't notice this until quite some time later when 2P51 was approaching Queen Street and I had a quick look at its timetable to see what platform it was heading for. Oops. Once again, apologies if this has been mentioned already, but I couldn’t find anything in previous forums posts. Save attached Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 21:19 #135752 | |
swiftaw
271 posts |
From the manual, https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:centralscotland:features#diverting_trains: Diverting Trains You will see that there are a variety of alternative routes between Polmont and Cowlairs via Greenhill Upper and Lower Junctions. The simulation is coded to allow for diversions without the need for user intervention; the timetable should automatically step up as the train passes certain trigger points. Note not every diversion possibility is coded and in some rare cases, you may still have to manually step up the timetable via F2 Options . Falkirk High and Falkirk Grahamston are coded to be mutually recognised so a train booked a stop at one will automatically stop at the other, though the timetabled location will not update as such to reflect the alternative. Drivers should not normally query a diversion provided the ultimate destination and intermediate station stops are still reachable. Invalid route phonecalls are coded to a minimum. Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 21:42 #135754 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts
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swiftaw in post 135752 said:From the manual, https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=simulations:centralscotland:features#diverting_trains:Yes, that's all understood. But in this instance the train was scheduled to go to Stirling and Dunblane and yes, it could have done so using an alternative route via Croy, Cowlairs East Jn, Springburn, Cumbernauld and Carmuirs West Jn. but if this was the case, unless I am mistaken, the driver should have complained of a wrong route at Cowlairs East Jn. where I set a route to Queen Street. Forgive me if I'm wrong, in which case I blame the wine 
Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 21:56 #135756 | |
postal
5265 posts |
bugsy in post 135747 said:Owing to a period of inattention to timetables (my biggest failing and I don't seem to be learning), I not only sent 4J03 the wrong way, which as it happens didn't really matter, but at about the same time I routed 2P51 towards Falkirk High and Croy at Polmont Jn. instead of towards Falkirk Grahamston and Stirling. I didn't notice this until quite some time later when 2P51 was approaching Queen Street and I had a quick look at its timetable to see what platform it was heading for. Oops.You should start taking notice of the headcode. The letter in the 4-character description is a route indicator. If you have access to working timetables (downloadable from https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/working-timetable/) you will find book GC00 which is the cover document for the WTTs on the east side of Scotland. This lists the destinations for each letter and for P shows "(Newcraighall) / Edinburgh / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services". Although the destination letters are not an infallible guide, seeing a 1PXX or 2PXX headcode is a good indicator that the train is booked from Polmont through Grahamaston and Larbert towards Stirling. Of relevance to CSCot, the following extracts from the WTT may be helpful: A Aberdeen B Edinburgh D Motherwell / Cumbernauld services H Inverness J Glasgow Queen Street / Cumbernauld / Falkirk Grahamston services L Dundee, Perth N Glasgow Queen Street / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services P (Newcraighall) / Edinburgh / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services R Glasgow Queen Street / Edinburgh express services T Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street V Certain Glasgow suburban services (mainly to / from Springburn) W Glasgow Queen Street / Anniesland (via Maryhill) services Y West Highland Line services “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 01/01/2021 at 00:54 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:03 #135757 | |
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Dionysusnu
577 posts |
postal in post 135756 said:bugsy in post 135747 said:Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being SandyOwing to a period of inattention to timetables (my biggest failing and I don't seem to be learning), I not only sent 4J03 the wrong way, which as it happens didn't really matter, but at about the same time I routed 2P51 towards Falkirk High and Croy at Polmont Jn. instead of towards Falkirk Grahamston and Stirling. I didn't notice this until quite some time later when 2P51 was approaching Queen Street and I had a quick look at its timetable to see what platform it was heading for. Oops.You should start taking notice of the headcode. The letter in the 4-character description is a route indicator. If you have access to working timetables (downloadable from https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/the-timetable/working-timetable/ you will find book GC00 which is the cover document for the WTTs on the east side of Scotland. This lists the destinations for each letter and for P shows "(Newcraighall) / Edinburgh / Stirling / Dunblane / Perth services". Although the destination letters are not an infallible guide, seeing a 1PXX or 2PXX headcode is a good indicator that the train is booked from Polmont through Grahamaston and Larbert towards Stirling. Of relevance to CSCot, the following extracts from the WTT may be helpful: But also being used for Royston services... Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:41 #135758 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts
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I have taken notice of Headcodes on some of the other sims, notably Peterborough and Carlisle, but I have to gain some experience with a simulation in order to digest this information. I've yet to do so with Central Scotland but will eventually do so (hopefully).
Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:41 #135759 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy Not sure which TT you were using but in the current WTT (YA00) S is only used for services terminating in the former Scottish region. It seems unlikely that somewhere insignificant in network terms like Sandy with a minimal number of terminators would be graced with its own code letter. As I said, it is not infallible but is a good guide. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:43 #135760 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
bugsy in post 135758 said:I have taken notice of Headcodes on some of the other sims, notably Peterborough and Carlisle, but I have to gain some experience with a simulation in order to digest this information. I've yet to do so with Central Scotland but will eventually do so (hopefully).If you are trying to make sense of an area it is probably one of the more important bits of information. If you have had to signal one train with the headcode that should cause you to put a mental marker down (or a sticky note or notepad beside your keyboard) so that when train two comes along you are prepared. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:54 #135762 | |
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bugsy
1766 posts
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postal in post 135760 said:bugsy in post 135758 said:That's a good idea. Another good idea is for me to read the flaming timetables, which as I've said before, is something that I fail to do so often :\I have taken notice of Headcodes on some of the other sims, notably Peterborough and Carlisle, but I have to gain some experience with a simulation in order to digest this information. I've yet to do so with Central Scotland but will eventually do so (hopefully).If you are trying to make sense of an area it is probably one of the more important bits of information. If you have had to signal one train with the headcode that should cause you to put a mental marker down (or a sticky note or notepad beside your keyboard) so that when train two comes along you are prepared. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 22:59 #135763 | |
Steamer
3985 posts
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Mantis 32633 logged for the original issue; I tend to agree that a diversion via Colwairs is a bit egregious. The wrong route code is in correctly at Carmuirs East, so I assume the lack of it at Polmont is an oversight.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 31/12/2020 at 23:13 #135766 | |
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Dionysusnu
577 posts |
postal in post 135759 said:Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:Royston trains wouldn't go to Scotland though. I use the October 2018 TT.Tried that on Kings cross once... turns out S is used both for FL IC225, S in my mind being Sandy What I said about Sandy is just a shortcut in my mind, because I know that Sandy is on Peterborough. Not that it actually terminates there. Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 00:43 #135770 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
Dionysusnu in post 135766 said:What I said about Sandy is just a shortcut in my mind, because I know that Sandy is on Peterborough. Not that it actually terminates there.The difference in thinking between people who have worked in logistics and the people who expect things to be there when they want them without having to worry about the back office! [Edit] PS I've no reason to doubt the excellent work of David Splett who has created some great timetables for this sim, but the May to December 2018 WTT section YA00 only shows "S" as the indicator for trains to the former Scottish Region. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 01/01/2021 at 01:04 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply The following user said thank you: jc92 |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 07:24 #135782 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R. Or is 9Sxx for some Thameslink working? Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 07:46 #135784 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
clive in post 135782 said:Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:9Sxx is assigned to Brighton - Cambridge Thameslink services (even numbers Northbound, odd numbers Southbound)When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 11:07 #135790 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
JamesN in post 135784 said:clive in post 135782 said:Damme, I knew that.Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:9Sxx is assigned to Brighton - Cambridge Thameslink services (even numbers Northbound, odd numbers Southbound)When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R. Opentraintimes still shows R for the few Royston starters/terminators. Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 21:02 #135838 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
Steamer in post 135763 said:Mantis 32633 logged for the original issue; I tend to agree that a diversion via Colwairs is a bit egregious. The wrong route code is in correctly at Carmuirs East, so I assume the lack of it at Polmont is an oversight. Polmont - High - Greenhill (rev) - Larbert or Greenhill - High - Polmont(rev) Larbert are not *that* unreasonable. The Cumbernauld vs Lenzie and the Edinburgh one (Dalmeny rev) are also reasonable. Bill Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 01/01/2021 at 21:39 #135841 | |
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Steamer
3985 posts
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bill_gensheet in post 135838 said:Steamer in post 135763 said:Anything with a reversal would be timetabled though (and thus not generate a call). If booked direct to Stirling, the driver would definitely query this one in reality.Mantis 32633 logged for the original issue; I tend to agree that a diversion via Colwairs is a bit egregious. The wrong route code is in correctly at Carmuirs East, so I assume the lack of it at Polmont is an oversight. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 02/01/2021 at 13:06 #135875 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
Steamer in post 135841 said:bill_gensheet in post 135838 said:Depends on the circumstances.Steamer in post 135763 said:Anything with a reversal would be timetabled though (and thus not generate a call). If booked direct to Stirling, the driver would definitely query this one in reality.Mantis 32633 logged for the original issue; I tend to agree that a diversion via Colwairs is a bit egregious. The wrong route code is in correctly at Carmuirs East, so I assume the lack of it at Polmont is an oversight. Randomly - yes the route would be queried. For engineering - a revised VAR or WTT was supplied so the train would follow that. Wrong route should not happen as the signaller should have reminders and blocks in place. Would anybody write a SimSig timetable for that ? Unlikely. For incidents - no. The crew would be advised by control before departure and there would not be a VAR/VSTP WTT done. As such no route query should result at Polmont. In Simsig all that would need is a F2 'reverse' and 'set next stop' at Greenhill rather than constructing new schedules, so that realistic subsequent delays would follow. So is it really a sim requirement to guard against 'fat finger/brain' (sorry Bugsy !) by making 'incident recovery games' more difficult than they should be? Bill Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 02/01/2021 at 14:08 #135884 | |
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Dionysusnu
577 posts |
JamesN in post 135784 said:clive in post 135782 said:Ah, so that's where the royston S headcodes came from. I hadn't spotted the numbers corresponding.Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:9Sxx is assigned to Brighton - Cambridge Thameslink services (even numbers Northbound, odd numbers Southbound)When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R. Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 02/01/2021 at 15:46 #135890 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
clive in post 135790 said:JamesN in post 135784 said:9S and 9J are used for services through the TL core to Cambridge and Peterborough (odd/even as James said).clive in post 135782 said:Damme, I knew that.Dionysusnu in post 135757 said:9Sxx is assigned to Brighton - Cambridge Thameslink services (even numbers Northbound, odd numbers Southbound)When did that change? I'm used to Royston being R. P, C and R are used for trains to/from KGX whether designated as TL or GN services. I think the remaining 2Cnn TL services are supposed to be going through St Pancras at some point to a different destination (Maidstone?) so will I guess become 9[something]. The WGC to KGX TL operated services (seem to be temporarily suspended) are to eventually go through too and will, I presume, become 9[somthing]. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Now 2P51 has accepted a wrong route at Polmont Jn. 02/01/2021 at 16:14 #135899 | |
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MarkC
1105 posts |
For those that are interested I have created a list of GN/Thameslink TD, this is the current allocation. 1Cxx London Kings Cross – Cambridge semi-fast services Cambridge – London Kings Cross semi-fast services 1Pxx Peterborough – London Kings Cross semi-fast services (1P01 to 1P79) London King’s Cross – Peterborough semi-fast services (1P00 to 1P78) Peterborough – London Kings Cross fast services (maximum of four stops; 1P81 to 99) London King’s Cross – Peterborough fast services (maximum of four stops; 1P80 to 98) 1Rxx London Kings Cross – Letchworth / Baldock / Royston semi-fast services Royston / Baldock / Letchworth – London Kings Cross semi-fast services 1Txx Kings Lynn – Ely - London Kings Cross London Kings Cross – Ely - Kings Lynn 2B01-79 Hertford North to Moorgate 2B00-78 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Hertford North 2B81-97 Hertford North to Moorgate via SL2 2B80-96 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Hertford North via SL2 2Cxx King’s Cross to Cambridge stopping services Cambridge to King’s Cross stopping services 2Dxx Stevenage, Hertford North or Gordon Hill to King’s Cross (odd) Moorgate or King’s Cross to Stevenage Platform 4 via Hertford North (even) 2F01-79 Stevenage to Moorgate via Hertford North 2F00-78 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Stevenage Bay via Hertford North 2F81-99 Stevenage to Moorgate via Hertford North and SL2 2F80-98 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Stevenage via SL2 and Hertford North 2G01-79 Gordon Hill to Moorgate 2G00-78 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Gordon Hill 2G81-99 Gordon Hill to Moorgate via SL2 2G80-98 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Gordon Hill via SL2 2K01-97 Welwyn GC to Moorgate via SL2 (includes trains starting at Finsbury Park) 2K00-96 Moorgate to Welwyn GC via SL2 (includes trains terminating at Finsbury Park) 2K98-99 Moorgate staff trains 2Pxx Peterborough to King’s Cross stopping services King’s Cross to Peterborough stopping services 2Rxx Royston, Baldock or Letchworth to King’s Cross stopping services King’s Cross to Letchworth, Baldock or Royston stopping services 2V01-99 Welwyn GC to Moorgate 2V00-98 Moorgate to Welwyn GC 2W01-79 Alexandra Palace to Moorgate or King’s Cross 2W00-78 Moorgate or King’s Cross to Alexandra Palace 2Yxx Welwyn GC to King’s Cross (includes Thameslink services) King’s Cross to Welwyn GC (includes Thameslink services) 5E10-49 GTR South-End arrivals 5E50-69 GTR North-End arrivals from London via Bowes Park Reversing Siding 5E70-79 GTR North-End arrivals from or via Welwyn Garden City 5E80-89 GTR North-End arrivals from or via Hertford North / Gordon Hill 5E90-99 Test trains and extraordinary services 9Jxx Peterborough and Horsham via London Bridge and Redhill 9Sxx Cambridge and Gatwick Airport / Three Bridges / Brighton via London Bridge and Quarry Lines 9Uxx Cambridge and Maidstone East / Ashford via London Bridge and Swanley 9Yxx Welwyn Garden City / Blackfriars and Sevenoaks via Catford and Swanley Last edited: 02/01/2021 at 16:14 by MarkC Reason: None given Log in to reply The following users said thank you: postal, Dionysusnu, Cedric2 |