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Class of Service in Timetable Editor

You are here: Home > Forum > General > General questions, comments, and issues > Class of Service in Timetable Editor

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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 22/02/2023 at 12:11 #150606
ajax103
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1120 posts 		I'm currently rebuilding a timetable and one of the options in the said editor is Class of service with options of:

Use Rules
Passenger
ECS
Excursion
Goods
Light Engine

Can anyone explain what impact they are meant to have on timetables so I can understand the functioning for them please?

Are they just default rules based on a blanket train type so using ECS, a train would react just as a real life ECS would?
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 22/02/2023 at 12:21 #150607
Meld
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1111 posts 		https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:ttuse:class_of_service should tell you everything you need to know.

You can also use them to get round things like class 3 ECS trains that object to goods lines/loops. Simply change the COS rule on the Misc tab to ECS which will remove the route query
Passed the age to be doing 'Spoon Feeding' !!!
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 22/02/2023 at 12:21 #150608
headshot119
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4869 posts 		There's information regarding Class of Service rules on the wiki https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:ttuse:class_of_service
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 22/02/2023 at 15:55 #150609
bill_gensheet
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1413 posts 		It might improve the comprehensibility of the wiki if term 'passenger' was not used both for the COS outcome and the input 'Linespeed to obey'.

Maybe 'Freight linespeed = ticked / unticked' ?

Showing the rule constructs alongside the default table might be useful to show how the code of say
ECS <= 0 [P] - {EPSE, EPSD, HST, EMU, DMU, SP, TGV, METRO, WES, STEAM}
translates into use.
I think :
A train with ID starting 0, that does not have freight linespeed ticked in its' train type, and is not an (EPSE, ....) speed class is treated as an ECS by COS, unless the train schedule specifies a COS directly.

Maybe also showing some simple changes such as making class 3 ID's that are EMU / DMU still behave as ECS.
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 22/02/2023 at 17:44 #150610
Jan
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906 posts 		bill_gensheet in post 150609 said:
Maybe also showing some simple changes such as making class 3 ID's that are EMU / DMU still behave as ECS.

Which I still regard as a bug with the default rules – it'd make more sense to assume that trains with any of the various MU/passenger stock speed classes are modern day priority ECS trains, and anything else is probably an old-fashioned parcels train. But currently the default rules are set up just precisely the opposite way around.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 22/02/2023 at 19:04 #150613
GeoffM
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6376 posts
Online 		Jan in post 150610 said:
bill_gensheet in post 150609 said:
Maybe also showing some simple changes such as making class 3 ID's that are EMU / DMU still behave as ECS.

Which I still regard as a bug with the default rules – it'd make more sense to assume that trains with any of the various MU/passenger stock speed classes are modern day priority ECS trains, and anything else is probably an old-fashioned parcels train. But currently the default rules are set up just precisely the opposite way around.
Hardly a "bug" (something that is either wrong or right) when plenty of timetables have more class 3s as freight/maintenance than priority ECSs. Woking, for example, is 70%/30%.
SimSig Boss
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 23/02/2023 at 11:22 #150617
bill_gensheet
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1413 posts 		GeoffM in post 150613 said:
Jan in post 150610 said:
bill_gensheet in post 150609 said:
Maybe also showing some simple changes such as making class 3 ID's that are EMU / DMU still behave as ECS.

Which I still regard as a bug with the default rules – it'd make more sense to assume that trains with any of the various MU/passenger stock speed classes are modern day priority ECS trains, and anything else is probably an old-fashioned parcels train. But currently the default rules are set up just precisely the opposite way around.
Hardly a "bug" (something that is either wrong or right) when plenty of timetables have more class 3s as freight/maintenance than priority ECSs. Woking, for example, is 70%/30%.

Either way, it would be foolish to change it now as there will inevitably be timetables using the default COS outcomes (by default) that would be altered by any change now via core code.

Hence my comment on showing what simple changes could be helpoful to a significant proportion of timetable scenarios.
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 23/02/2023 at 17:33 #150623
Jan
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906 posts 		GeoffM in post 150613 said:
Jan in post 150610 said:
bill_gensheet in post 150609 said:
Maybe also showing some simple changes such as making class 3 ID's that are EMU / DMU still behave as ECS.

Which I still regard as a bug with the default rules – it'd make more sense to assume that trains with any of the various MU/passenger stock speed classes are modern day priority ECS trains, and anything else is probably an old-fashioned parcels train. But currently the default rules are set up just precisely the opposite way around.
Hardly a "bug" (something that is either wrong or right) when plenty of timetables have more class 3s as freight/maintenance than priority ECSs. Woking, for example, is 70%/30%.

Well, outright freight trains (which "Use freight linespeeds"don't enter into the question anyway – those are correctly labelled as "Goods" by the current rules and that's it.

You do have a point about those maintenance trains, though, because what I hadn't expected is that those, too, actually turn out to commonly run at passenger speeds, and therefore further muddle the picture.

In that case I guess that even with compatibility concerns set aside, there really is no good solution – the current implementation is suboptimal for distinguishing between old-style parcels trains and modern MU stock priority ECS, but on the other hand at least maintenance trains get classified as ECS. That isn't really right, either, as they should probably be "Goods" trains, too, but at least that way they won't complain about being routed onto freight lines.

If the rule for Class 3 trains was swapped around, then the Parcels vs. Priority ECS situation might be improved, but then all the maintenance trains running at passenger speeds would classified as "Passenger" trains, too, which wouldn't be what you'd want, either.

But it does mean that all maintenance trains actually manually need to be marked as "Goods" services, because otherwise you're getting passenger delays for them, too.
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 25/02/2023 at 18:35 #150676
clive
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2789 posts 		Jan in post 150623 said:

but on the other hand at least maintenance trains get classified as ECS. That isn't really right, either, as they should probably be "Goods" trains, too, but at least that way they won't complain about being routed onto freight lines.

If the rule for Class 3 trains was swapped around, then the Parcels vs. Priority ECS situation might be improved, but then all the maintenance trains running at passenger speeds would classified as "Passenger" trains, too, which wouldn't be what you'd want, either.

But it does mean that all maintenance trains actually manually need to be marked as "Goods" services, because otherwise you're getting passenger delays for them, too.
How do you distinguish a maintenance train? Are they all 3Q##? If so, write a rule for that. Could you use one of the custom speed classes for them and write a rule for that? If there's only a few, just set the COS for the individual trains.
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 25/02/2023 at 19:30 #150677
Jan
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906 posts 		clive in post 150676 said:
How do you distinguish a maintenance train? Are they all 3Q##? If so, write a rule for that.

To some extent that'd work, although a) I suppose you'll always come across an exception somewhere that needs handling individually and especially b) class 3 headcodes can overlap with priority ECS, sometimes – albeit probably only rarely – even within the same timetable.
So basically yes, but the rules need to be individually verified for each specific timetable.

And somehow so far people seem to be reluctant in writing custom rules – I think so far Slough 2009 is the only official timetable that actually employs them? (Looking through my hard disk, there are a few more timetables with some rules present in the timetable, but looking through them it's always simply a copy of the default rules, which doesn't really count.)

clive in post 150676 said:
Could you use one of the custom speed classes for them and write a rule for that?

Interesting idea. I think it could work, but I'm not sure if globally (across all UK timetables!) blocking up a sim-specific speed class just for that is that wise an idea. For something comparable, it'd probably be better to add the ability of overriding COS at a train category level, too.

clive in post 150676 said:
If there's only a few, just set the COS for the individual trains.
I tried suggesting that for one timetable that's in the process of being updated, and was shot down because manually adjusting COS per train was supposedly too labour-intensive (for a total of four trains in that particular timetable).
Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick.
Last edited: 25/02/2023 at 19:35 by Jan
Reason: None given
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 25/02/2023 at 19:40 #150678
y10g9
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895 posts 		Jan in post 150677 said:

clive in post 150676 said:
If there's only a few, just set the COS for the individual trains.
I tried suggesting that for one timetable that's in the process of being updated, and was shot down because manually adjusting COS per train was supposedly too labour-intensive (for a total of four trains in that particular timetable).
It’s not the single TT, it’s every TT that those 4 trains appear in which is what becomes labour-intensive
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Class of Service in Timetable Editor 27/02/2023 at 18:48 #150690
postal
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5264 posts
Online 		y10g9 in post 150678 said:
Jan in post 150677 said:

clive in post 150676 said:
If there's only a few, just set the COS for the individual trains.
I tried suggesting that for one timetable that's in the process of being updated, and was shot down because manually adjusting COS per train was supposedly too labour-intensive (for a total of four trains in that particular timetable).
It’s not the single TT, it’s every TT that those 4 trains appear in which is what becomes labour-intensive
Unless those 4 trains are edited in the core data set. It wouldn't update the TTs already out there but would enable the trains to be updated if a TT was re-issued.

Thinking about it, if the data was edited in just one TT would it cause a problem in passing on the train if sims were chained? If not then the only argument for making all of the edits is data consistency although there would be no operational issues.

Not posting to pick a fight, posting to explore the issues when passing data from one sim to another!
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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