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Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 26/04/2023 at 22:28 #151524 | |
Davem1958
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Hi, Like, as I'm sure most 'SimSignallers' do, I always have a Train List table active to help monitor whats going in. As the attached picture shows, when the trains are sorted by status, the order of the list is first by ascending speeds followed by the stationary trains. On a list such as the one pictured, with only ten trains, this is perfectly OK. However, when you have a much busier simulation with many more trains, the slower trains and the stationary trains are increasingly separated by the trains that are travelling at high speed. Of course, whilst it would be wrong to always assume that trains belting along at 75mph can be safely ignored, it is probably correct to say that the stationary, or perhaps soon to be stationary trains, are likely to be the trains that are going to need more immediate attention. It is with this in mind, that I was wondering whether it would be possible have the slower and stationary trains together on the list, with the faster moving trains not listed between them? The one way that this might be achieved is if the phrase 'stopped' could be replaced with 'halted.' This would result in the stationary trains being listed first with the moving trains below them in ascending speed order when 'Status' is selected as the sort criteria. Naturally, should this be contrary to the 'real thing,' then obviously in the interests of maintaining SimSig's dedication to authenticity, this request should be ignored. Just my tuppence worth, you understand. Cheers! Dave ![]() Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 13:47 #151532 | |
flabberdacks
![]() 607 posts |
Just to clarify, you're looking for the ability to sort the train list by whether the train is stopped at a red signal or not?
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Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 15:07 #151536 | |
Davem1958
![]() 11 posts |
Hi, More specifically, I want to not have the situation where stationary trains - at a signal, or not - are listed next to trains that are moving at fast speed. That is how a 'status sorted' list presents the train list currently. By using 'halted' rather than 'stopped' the stationary trains would appear at the top of the sorted list, together with joining trains, with the moving trains below in ascending order based on speed. There are, of course, other statuses of trains (waiting for right of way, etc) that would appear in the list; but the stationary/slow trains would appear at the top of the list, excluding trains 'waiting for right of way' which, alphabetically, would be at the bottom of the list, as they are now (the TRTS message is a good enough prompt for me with regard to those trains, anyway - if I miss them). I hope I've sufficiently elaborated. :) Cheers, Dave Last edited: 27/04/2023 at 15:09 by Davem1958 Reason: italics added for emphasis Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 15:45 #151541 | |
TUT
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Davem1958 in post 151536 said:Hi,Right away Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 15:47 #151542 | |
GeoffM
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The selected column is sorted alphabetically, hence "Moving at" comes before "Stopped at". For speeds 10mph to 99mph it sorts quite nicely by speed, but below 10mph and 100mph and over it does not. Not something I'd ever considered to be honest. If you wanted "stopped at red signal" then you'd need a synonym like "halted at" so it sorts higher in the list. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 16:05 #151544 | |
flabberdacks
![]() 607 posts |
Can you reverse-sort the train list? I admit I've never tried, I hardly ever open it unless I need to do something specific
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Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 16:44 #151546 | |
Davem1958
![]() 11 posts |
Quote:Davem1958 in post 151536 said:Actually, it's "right-away." If we're going to be pedantic ... ![]() Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 16:56 #151547 | |
Davem1958
![]() 11 posts |
GeoffM in post 151542 said:The selected column is sorted alphabetically, hence "Moving at" comes before "Stopped at". For speeds 10mph to 99mph it sorts quite nicely by speed, but below 10mph and 100mph and over it does not. Not something I'd ever considered to be honest. The specific reason why the train has stopped doesn't really matter. I'm just looking for a way that would: 1/ Put the stationary trains - stationary for whatever reason - to the top of the list ("halted" being ahead of "stopped," alphabetically.) 2/ Have the trains that are travelling at top speed lower down the list, with the slower trains next in the list to the stationary trains. For me, at least, it better prioritises the list when sorted by status. Thanks for the replies. Like I said, just my tuppence worth - no big deal. Cheers. Dave Last edited: 27/04/2023 at 16:58 by Davem1958 Reason: Grammar Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 17:17 #151548 | |
bill_gensheet
![]() 1357 posts |
Take a step back, you surely just need a straightforward numerical sort by speed ascending. I guess that in turn would need the current column in F2 to be split into 'Speed' and 'Status' rather than being joined up. As noted from Geoff, the multiple reasons to be stopped that can appear will make a mess of any alphabetical sort on the column as it is now. Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 18:03 #151549 | |
GeoffM
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Speed is not an indicator of trains needing attention though. Take this example: - Train A is travelling at 40mph - Train B is travelling at 41mph Does that mean train A needs attention more? No, because in this example train B was travelling at 125mph but encountered a double yellow and then a single yellow and is now travelling at 41mph, preparing to stop. Train A is meanwhile at its maximum speed of 40mph and doesn't need any attention. You could also mix in a train slowing to a station stop but which otherwise has green signals for miles. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Meld |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 21:30 #151556 | |
Davem1958
![]() 11 posts |
Quote:... Of course, whilst it would be wrong to always assume that trains belting along at 75mph can be safely ignored, it is probably correct to say that the stationary, or perhaps soon to be stationary trains, are likely to be the trains that are going to need more immediate attention. ...Forgive me, but there was not, and I don't think one can deduce from the above, an assumption that trains at relatively higher speeds can be safely relegated, attention wise. The existing Train list places stationary trains at the bottom, or close to the bottom, when sorted by status. That is because the list is sorted alphabetically with 'moving' being before 'stopped,' alphabetically. That 'moving' group is then further sorted by ascending speed. It is only when you get down to the fastest moving train that the 'stopped' list then appears. Quote: As noted from Geoff, the multiple reasons to be stopped that can appear will make a mess of any alphabetical sort on the column as it is now.At the moment all trains that are not moving, unless they're dividing or waiting for a joining train, are described as 'stopped,' at a signal, or a platform, or wherever. If the term 'stopped' was replaced with "halted,' or anything else that begins with a letter earlier in the alphabet than 'M,' then those trains would appear before the list of moving trains begins, meaning that the list would effectively begin with stationary trains, followed by the moving trains in an ascending order based on their speed. I do not, and have not advocated the idea of a multiplicity of different terms to be used to describe a train that is stationary. I fully understand that for some, the Train List, sorted by ID, is simply a point of reference from which tasks can be accomplished, such as: instructing drivers to inspect the line, pass signals at danger, shunt forward, etc. I just think that the Train List has the potential to have a degree of extra utility if it presents the information in a way that reduces the need for extra scrolling, particularly on the busier simulations with a very large number of trains. Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 27/04/2023 at 21:41 #151558 | |
clive
![]() 2766 posts |
GeoffM in post 151542 said:The selected column is sorted alphabetically, hence "Moving at" comes before "Stopped at". For speeds 10mph to 99mph it sorts quite nicely by speed, but below 10mph and 100mph and over it does not. Not something I'd ever considered to be honest.There's no reason the sort has to be alphabetical. Provided that you can write clear rules for determining the order (e.g. a set of "Stopped comes before moving", "Low speed comes before high speed" ![]() Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Davem1958 |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 28/04/2023 at 16:59 #151575 | |
GeoffM
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clive in post 151558 said:GeoffM in post 151542 said:I was describing how it currently works. Of course it could work differently but because of where it sorts (and filters) is not conducive to anything other than alphabetical sorting.The selected column is sorted alphabetically, hence "Moving at" comes before "Stopped at". For speeds 10mph to 99mph it sorts quite nicely by speed, but below 10mph and 100mph and over it does not. Not something I'd ever considered to be honest.There's no reason the sort has to be alphabetical. Provided that you can write clear rules for determining the order (e.g. a set of "Stopped comes before moving", "Low speed comes before high speed" Of course, in an ideal world, you'd be watching the signalling display and spotting trains before they come up to yellow signals, rather than watching a train list and reacting to them already having slowed down, but this is where we are. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 29/04/2023 at 07:44 #151584 | |
kbarber
![]() 1723 posts |
GeoffM in post 151575 said:clive in post 151558 said:GeoffM in post 151542 said:I was describing how it currently works. Of course it could work differently but because of where it sorts (and filters) is not conducive to anything other than alphabetical sorting.The selected column is sorted alphabetically, hence "Moving at" comes before "Stopped at". For speeds 10mph to 99mph it sorts quite nicely by speed, but below 10mph and 100mph and over it does not. Not something I'd ever considered to be honest.There's no reason the sort has to be alphabetical. Provided that you can write clear rules for determining the order (e.g. a set of "Stopped comes before moving", "Low speed comes before high speed" I think that, perhaps, is an important point. The real-life signaller doesn't have anything equivalent to the F2 train list. Keeping trains moving relies on 'situational awareness' (keeping an eye on the panel, both for trains and for routes/signals) and knowledge of the equipment (where there are approach-controlled aspects for junctions, for instance) and of the traffic. When I learned boxes (OK, I'll grant you it was a long time ago) learning the traffic was one of the most important things. Those were the days/locations, of course, where we didn't have 4-digit train descriptions; on the North/West London/T&H network, trains were 'circuited' by phone between designated boxes ("...next up you've got the Langley then you'll have the Millbrook behind the passenger..." ) and it was the bobby's job to know the work well enough to keep everything moving. Even now I only open F2 if there's a specific query in my mind (a train doesn't move when I think it ought to f'rinstance... some of those drivers are SLOOOWWWWW changing ends) or I need to intervene in a most non-signalman way. Last edited: 29/04/2023 at 07:44 by kbarber Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Train List - Just a suggestion...don't shoot! 29/04/2023 at 10:30 #151591 | |
ajax103
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kbarber in post 151584 said:GeoffM in post 151575 said:I only use F2 as a more live version of the simplifier which is useful when checking multiple departures at the same time eg London Euston departures within the next 60 minutes or so whereas trains timetabled later I just use the simplifier.clive in post 151558 said:GeoffM in post 151542 said:I was describing how it currently works. Of course it could work differently but because of where it sorts (and filters) is not conducive to anything other than alphabetical sorting.The selected column is sorted alphabetically, hence "Moving at" comes before "Stopped at". For speeds 10mph to 99mph it sorts quite nicely by speed, but below 10mph and 100mph and over it does not. Not something I'd ever considered to be honest.There's no reason the sort has to be alphabetical. Provided that you can write clear rules for determining the order (e.g. a set of "Stopped comes before moving", "Low speed comes before high speed" As to the suggestion, is it really needed? Why change what works? As to "Keeping trains moving relies on 'situational awareness" that for some unknown reason is a skill that is more and more is becoming rather rare those days. Log in to reply |