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Loss of power query. 12/05/2023 at 08:58 #151786 | |
i26
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Now I know this won't apply all the time but if a train enters with a loss of power and terminates within sim shouldn't the return working also have a loss of power? I'm not sure if this is something that could potentially be added in future?
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Loss of power query. 12/05/2023 at 10:32 #151790 | |
y10g9
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This has been discussed here and had Mantis 32795 raised for looking at potential changes
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Loss of power query. 13/05/2023 at 02:49 #151815 | |
BenWright
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You wouldn't really want it to as on simulations where the one train doesn't exit the sim - for example Sandhills - it wouldn't really be realistic to have a unit going round with a loss of power all through the timetable without it being fixed or head back to the depot
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Loss of power query. 13/05/2023 at 04:37 #151816 | |
Splodge
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Perhaps a tt option to carry a fault? A Northern service arriving at Piccadilly or Victoria can have a fitter meet it and hit it with a hammer or top up coolant on a diesel (the main loss of power cause!); however if it happens on the way to Rose Hill or Chester for example we’ll have to carry the fault back to base as we don’t have a fitter. However it might be too difficult to implement as a sim dev or TT writer for the few moves it would apply to compared to the input effort!
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Loss of power query. 13/05/2023 at 12:27 #151820 | |
bill_gensheet
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Splodge in post 151816 said:Perhaps a tt option to carry a fault? A Northern service arriving at Piccadilly or Victoria can have a fitter meet it and hit it with a hammer or top up coolant on a diesel (the main loss of power cause!); however if it happens on the way to Rose Hill or Chester for example we’ll have to carry the fault back to base as we don’t have a fitter. However it might be too difficult to implement as a sim dev or TT writer for the few moves it would apply to compared to the input effort!I have thrown a few of those into some of my TT's, but done as small % decisions and with a specific train type - eg 'HST one engine' with a speed of 90 and v.slow/heavy performance settings. I then have the remedies (loco/unit swap, long stop, enter and attach 1Z99) set up in the timetable where theu can be made to validate OK. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: ajax103 |
Loss of power query. 13/05/2023 at 15:45 #151829 | |
ajax103
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bill_gensheet in post 151820 said:Splodge in post 151816 said:I personally think this is the best method to use, yes it means more work for the timetable developer but it's the most effective method I can see to have this in play.Perhaps a tt option to carry a fault? A Northern service arriving at Piccadilly or Victoria can have a fitter meet it and hit it with a hammer or top up coolant on a diesel (the main loss of power cause!); however if it happens on the way to Rose Hill or Chester for example we’ll have to carry the fault back to base as we don’t have a fitter. However it might be too difficult to implement as a sim dev or TT writer for the few moves it would apply to compared to the input effort!I have thrown a few of those into some of my TT's, but done as small % decisions and with a specific train type - eg 'HST one engine' with a speed of 90 and v.slow/heavy performance settings. I then have the remedies (loco/unit swap, long stop, enter and attach 1Z99) set up in the timetable where theu can be made to validate OK. This is just my opinion though. Log in to reply |
Loss of power query. 13/05/2023 at 18:10 #151833 | |
i26
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The whole loss of power is random is it not? If a train enters from Waterloo with a loss of power and lets say terminates at Reading then there won't be a fitter there to have a look at it until it gets back to Waterloo therefor in my opinion the loss of power should automatically enable on the trains return journey which can then be disabled in the TT editor if the player doesn't want it.
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Loss of power query. 13/05/2023 at 22:32 #151836 | |
bill_gensheet
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i26 in post 151833 said:The whole loss of power is random is it not? If a train enters from Waterloo with a loss of power and lets say terminates at Reading then there won't be a fitter there to have a look at it until it gets back to Waterloo therefor in my opinion the loss of power should automatically enable on the trains return journey which can then be disabled in the TT editor if the player doesn't want it.On the other hand there were watering cans on the platform to top up the old DMU's. Similarly say a dud speedo only mattters in the leading cab. No one size fits all Log in to reply |
Loss of power query. 13/05/2023 at 22:39 #151837 | |
i26
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bill_gensheet in post 151836 said:i26 in post 151833 said:But in some circumstances a loss of power could effect the return journey so maybe random if the train suffers with the issue on the return? Also on sims like Wimbledon a train can develop a fault which effects the power instead of only trains entering the sim having a loss of power?The whole loss of power is random is it not? If a train enters from Waterloo with a loss of power and lets say terminates at Reading then there won't be a fitter there to have a look at it until it gets back to Waterloo therefor in my opinion the loss of power should automatically enable on the trains return journey which can then be disabled in the TT editor if the player doesn't want it.On the other hand there were watering cans on the platform to top up the old DMU's. ![]() Log in to reply |
Loss of power query. 14/05/2023 at 07:52 #151838 | |
postal
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i26 in post 151837 said:bill_gensheet in post 151836 said:So you are reinforcing Bill's point that no one size fits all?i26 in post 151833 said:But in some circumstances a loss of power could effect the return journey so maybe random if the train suffers with the issue on the return? Also on sims like Wimbledon a train can develop a fault which effects the power instead of only trains entering the sim having a loss of power?The whole loss of power is random is it not? If a train enters from Waterloo with a loss of power and lets say terminates at Reading then there won't be a fitter there to have a look at it until it gets back to Waterloo therefor in my opinion the loss of power should automatically enable on the trains return journey which can then be disabled in the TT editor if the player doesn't want it.On the other hand there were watering cans on the platform to top up the old DMU's. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
Loss of power query. 14/05/2023 at 11:19 #151839 | |
58050
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Prior to April 1994 during the BR era if a 2 car unit like a 1st Generation DMU or a Cl.150, Cl.156 or a Cl.158 2 car set lost one engine the rule was that the train had to terminate at the next station, de-train all the passengers & be taken out of service immeadiately & go ECS to a maintenance facility where the problem could be identified & fixed. It wouldn't be allowed to continue in service with a loss of power. Whether that's the case still these days I've no idea as I worked on the freight side of the railway industry. I remember back in the late 1970s travelling on a 2 car Cl.105 Craven unit between Bedford & Bletchley[Usually 1 power car & 1 trailer vehicle] & the unit lost an engine. So the train stopped at Aspley Guise & we all had to get off & wait for the next train which turned up about an hour later. The unit went empty to Bletchley TMD. Not something SimSig can easily simulate I hasten to add.
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Loss of power query. 15/05/2023 at 08:39 #151847 | |
kbarber
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58050 in post 151839 said:Prior to April 1994 during the BR era if a 2 car unit like a 1st Generation DMU or a Cl.150, Cl.156 or a Cl.158 2 car set lost one engine the rule was that the train had to terminate at the next station, de-train all the passengers & be taken out of service immeadiately & go ECS to a maintenance facility where the problem could be identified & fixed. It wouldn't be allowed to continue in service with a loss of power. Whether that's the case still these days I've no idea as I worked on the freight side of the railway industry. I remember back in the late 1970s travelling on a 2 car Cl.105 Craven unit between Bedford & Bletchley[Usually 1 power car & 1 trailer vehicle] & the unit lost an engine. So the train stopped at Aspley Guise & we all had to get off & wait for the next train which turned up about an hour later. The unit went empty to Bletchley TMD. Not something SimSig can easily simulate I hasten to add.In the summer of 1979 Cricklewood was pretty stretched for DMUs (it was sometimes referred to by us operators as Cripplewood). Sometimes they'd put a 127 on the Kentish Town - Barking service, pretty undesirable because the combination of short inter-station distances and steep gradients meant their hydraulic transmissions weren't able to get into direct drive. Consequence was they they rarely managed more than one round trip and it was common to see them limp past Junction Road on one engine, with plumes of steam coming from under the power cars - but definitely still carrying passengers! (A couple of years later, when I became station supervisor at Barking, one of the first things I was shown was where the watering can was kept for topping up the T&H units.) Now that *would* be something interesting for Simsig to try and simulate... Last edited: 15/05/2023 at 08:41 by kbarber Reason: None given Log in to reply |
Loss of power query. 15/05/2023 at 09:59 #151848 | |
bugsy
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I hope that they showed you where the kettle was first.
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Loss of power query. 15/05/2023 at 10:02 #151849 | |
jc92
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I suspect accurately simulating a loss of power event isn't really possible without manual user intervention as its too complicated a subject. that isn't to say we shouldn't have the existing system in place, only that once you go beyond the "this block of red runs a bit slower" method, it all comes down to what's available where and what can be done on the day. You could have a class 66 with an isolated traction motor, but the decision is made to download its train to maintain its timings in which case the loss of power is avoided. Equally said train could develop a fault in transit and the decision is made to divert it into a yard en route to either cancel the train there, replace the loco, or remove vehicles to download it. It might always be the case it's left to run and accrue delay. That decision is based on a lot of outside of/beyond Simsig factors which can only really be simulated by the user manually amending its timetable(s) to reflect what's going to happen. The same will likely apply on the passenger side. when a unit arrives and is met by a fitter, it could be a top up of coolant is needed, or the unit could be declared a failure and end up shuffling off to a maintenance location (to be replaced, or not). I think the present system gives a good reflection of the issue and forces us to deal with it, without getting needlessly complicated. I do agree any in sim detach or next activity should carry the fault over by default. It can be left down to the user (or host) to decide if they want to replace it and how that will be done. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
Loss of power query. 15/05/2023 at 10:15 #151850 | |
58050
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kbarber in post 151847 said:58050 in post 151839 said:Keith the Cl.127 Rolls Royce sets could work through the gears like any other diesel mechancial DMU, but they could also run by the driver sticking them into 'D' from standing start, subject of course to whether the drivers train of thought. I know a few drivers from Bedford & St. Pancras working a gear change set with a Cl.127 & forgetting that they had a gear change set coupled in multi thus resulting in the gear change set screaming in 1st gear whilst the Cl.127 was operating in 'D' or gear 4. Destroying the gearboxes on the gear change set. As you say you were station supervisor at Barking did you know Trevor Goddard?Prior to April 1994 during the BR era if a 2 car unit like a 1st Generation DMU or a Cl.150, Cl.156 or a Cl.158 2 car set lost one engine the rule was that the train had to terminate at the next station, de-train all the passengers & be taken out of service immeadiately & go ECS to a maintenance facility where the problem could be identified & fixed. It wouldn't be allowed to continue in service with a loss of power. Whether that's the case still these days I've no idea as I worked on the freight side of the railway industry. I remember back in the late 1970s travelling on a 2 car Cl.105 Craven unit between Bedford & Bletchley[Usually 1 power car & 1 trailer vehicle] & the unit lost an engine. So the train stopped at Aspley Guise & we all had to get off & wait for the next train which turned up about an hour later. The unit went empty to Bletchley TMD. Not something SimSig can easily simulate I hasten to add.In the summer of 1979 Cricklewood was pretty stretched for DMUs (it was sometimes referred to by us operators as Cripplewood). Sometimes they'd put a 127 on the Kentish Town - Barking service, pretty undesirable because the combination of short inter-station distances and steep gradients meant their hydraulic transmissions weren't able to get into direct drive. Consequence was they they rarely managed more than one round trip and it was common to see them limp past Junction Road on one engine, with plumes of steam coming from under the power cars - but definitely still carrying passengers! (A couple of years later, when I became station supervisor at Barking, one of the first things I was shown was where the watering can was kept for topping up the T&H units.) Last edited: 15/05/2023 at 10:18 by 58050 Reason: corrected typo Log in to reply |
Loss of power query. 16/05/2023 at 08:13 #151854 | |
kbarber
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58050 in post 151850 said:<snip>I knew of Trevor; he had gone into the Control by the time I arrived at Barking (autumn of 1981, after my stint on the Motorail) but he was still often spoken of. Log in to reply |
Loss of power query. 16/05/2023 at 11:12 #151856 | |
58050
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kbarber in post 151854 said:58050 in post 151850 said:I worked with Trevor when I went to Liverpool Street RCO. He was one of the regular CFRO[Current Freight & Resources Officer] & on Sundays they also covered the DCC[Deputy Chief Controllers] job this was between 1990 & 1994. He lived in Cambridge then & when he left the RCO he went to work in Cambridge PSB IIRC. Great bloke. Going back to the DMUs on the Gospel Oak - Barking services. I remember once when I was at St. Pancras in 1985 I had to go & secondman an ex Doncaster driver Herve Wooley to pick up a failed unit that had been left at Crouch Hill station. The unit was completely dead as we had to drag this Cl.104 unit back to Cricklewood T&RSMD for repairs. I remember this incident very vividly as I had to couple the DMU to the loco & the vacuum brake pipes were B******s to deal with as they were very stiff & awkward to manoeveur. The trick was to get the lugs of each vac brake pipe to cross at the bottom then let them go * they'd end up in the right position & seal before you put the clips in. I managed it with a bit of a struggle & then we set off back towards Junction Road Jn after going onto the rear of it & heading off towards Cricklewood via Carlton Road Jn.<snip>I knew of Trevor; he had gone into the Control by the time I arrived at Barking (autumn of 1981, after my stint on the Motorail) but he was still often spoken of. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: kbarber |