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| Timing Load Question for WCML 20/05/2023 at 12:27 #151918 | |
ajax103
1120 posts |
I'm currently doing some light reading with a September 1997 CB WTT and trying to understand what Railtrack has put and what SimSig has put in regards to working out the various train loads. Open Rail Data Wiki says: Hauled Train (D, E or ED) with Planned Load 1 - 9999 Load in Tonnes (1 - 999 only with ED) Simsig says: A loco-hauled train is indicated firstly by the type of haulage (E for electric or D for diesel), followed by the trailing tonnage. For passenger trains it is assumed a weight of 35 tonnes per carriage: D350 - Diesel hauled train with either 10 passenger/mail carriages or an unspecified number of freight wagons totalling 350 tonnes E070 - Electric hauled train with either 2 passenger/mail carriages or an unspecified number of freight wagons totalling 70 tonnes The actual tonnage on the day may be less than that specified. The Platform 5 books say: Mk 3 buffet car = 36.12 t Mk 3 1st class = 33.66 t Mk 3 2nd class = 33.60 t Mk 3 guard van = 33.47 t BR manuals say: Mk 3 buffet car = 39t Mk 3 1st class = 33t Mk 3 2nd class = 33t Mk 3 guard van = 43t So who's actually right here? The WTT makes mention of various timing loads as: E315 E385 E385-1 E455 E595-8 D210 D350 D400 I've tried to work out the various figures but Wikipedia and the BR manuals make mention of short and long tons for the locos which I don't understand. I've been led to believe that typical formations were: Loco + 5 x Mk3 TSOs + Mk3 RFM + Mk3 FOs + Mk3 DVT Loco + 5 x Mk2 TSOs + Mk3 RFM + Mk2 FOs + Mk3 DVT But trying to work out the difference timing loads is causing a headache, Anyone know how to translate this? If I use the SimSig example of 35t per passenger carriage and using E455 as a example, that ought to mean a Loco + 13 coaches? Yet the Class 87 wikipedia page states that the loco weighs in at 80 long tons (81 t; 90 short tons)? So what is the best way to work out the various timing loads than? Log in to reply |
| Timing Load Question for WCML 20/05/2023 at 13:28 #151919 | |
JamesN
1607 posts |
Timing Load ultimately is just that. It has nothing to do with how many coaches/wagons are actually in a train. It means that a train at that weight, hauled by a Diesel/Electric locomotive, should match or better those timings. They won’t have compiled timings for every conceivable weight of train that may run, so the planners just use a timing load that would roughly work for the formation they intend to run. By 1997 west coast will have been relatively fixed formation push/pull sets of Mk2s and/or Mk3s; with some HSTs thrown in as well. I would not be using timing loads to discern formations of trains - that needs diagrams/working books/etc. Last edited: 20/05/2023 at 13:28 by JamesN Reason: None given Log in to reply The following users said thank you: jc92, Meld |
| Timing Load Question for WCML 20/05/2023 at 15:12 #151920 | |
pedroathome
915 posts 
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JamesN in post 151919 said:Timing Load ultimately is just that. It has nothing to do with how many coaches/wagons are actually in a train.Not on the West Coast, but I've definitely seen in carriage working books cases of a train being booked described as D420 (So the weight of 12 coaches) but the stock is only a 4 coach rake Log in to reply |
| Timing Load Question for WCML 20/05/2023 at 16:50 #151922 | |
postal
5264 posts
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pedroathome in post 151920 said:JamesN in post 151919 said:As JamesN said, the timing load is nothing to do with the actual consist of the train. It is possible that the train you reference needed to be timed to hit certain waymarks and the easiest way for the timetablers to do this would be to pick up the timings for a D420 timing load. I would guess that back in the day some of the Royal Mail services of four or five NPCCS were timed in that way in order to leave a calling point after a given cut-off time going on to have a given dwell time and not be due to leave the next calling point until another cut-off time. Timed as a heavier consist possibly being the easiest way to get it to the second calling point without an excessive platform dwell before due departure.Timing Load ultimately is just that. It has nothing to do with how many coaches/wagons are actually in a train.Not on the West Coast, but I've definitely seen in carriage working books cases of a train being booked described as D420 (So the weight of 12 coaches) but the stock is only a 4 coach rake “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 20/05/2023 at 22:42 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Timing Load Question for WCML 20/05/2023 at 17:41 #151923 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts |
pedroathome in post 151920 said:Some older WTT (I have a 1975) have a conversion table that explains in more detail. D315 is the timing for the 'standard' loco hauling 315T, with 'standard' being a class 40 / 45 / 47 / 50 / 52 as per (sub)region. It then lists for all other locos the permitted trailing weight to be able to sustain those same D315 timings. Offhand I think for a single 24 it was hauling 165T. Bill Log in to reply |