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| ARS at Northallerton 13/08/2023 at 10:56 #152785 | |
bugsy
1775 posts |
Is ARS true to life at Northallerton in the York simulation? If ARS should automatically set routes in accordance with time tables, then it has thrown a wobbly at Northallerton where it put 1A65 from Eaglescliffe, which is early, in front of 1E13 from Darlington. This wouldn’t have been a problem but 1A65 was due to depart after non-stopping 1E13 had passed through on time. My fault I suppose for not keeping an eye on things as I know that ARS isn’t perfect. I’ve now turned ARS off at this location. ...  Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Log in to reply |
| ARS at Northallerton 13/08/2023 at 12:16 #152787 | |
Hap
1042 posts 
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The ARS is working accordingly. It is up to the signaller to regulate accordingly.
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| ARS at Northallerton 13/08/2023 at 13:32 #152789 | |
JamesN
1609 posts
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It’s likely that 1E13 hadn’t even entered when ARS decided to set the route for early 1A65. ARS only knows of the existence of a train once it enters the sim, so it wouldn’t have known it was making an error. Log in to reply |
| ARS at Northallerton 13/08/2023 at 14:38 #152791 | |
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bugsy
1775 posts |
Hap in post 152787 said:The ARS is working accordingly. It is up to the signaller to regulate accordingly.So it ignores the timetable then? I thought that I'd read somewhere that it took the timetables into account. Obviously not always. I did actually say that it was my fault in my post and I can see why, as JamesN pointed out. Everything that you make will be useful - providing it's made of chocolate. Last edited: 13/08/2023 at 14:42 by bugsy Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| ARS at Northallerton 13/08/2023 at 15:19 #152792 | |
flabberdacks
636 posts |
ARS follows the timetable for trains it is aware of. ARS is not aware of a train which hasn't entered the sim yet. You do need to keep this in mind at locations near entry points in every sim I'm afraid.
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| ARS at Northallerton 13/08/2023 at 15:46 #152794 | |
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bill_gensheet
1418 posts |
AFAIK (mainly from debugging Edinburgh) ARS process goes: I need to set a route to keep this train on greens. Does this route conflict with another train that might want the same route soon ? If so do a calculation on which gets (weighted) delayed least, using the timetable to work out when the conflicts are made and cleared. The issues, and why it is only an aid, are: If the 'conflicting' train is not there / started it is not conflicting - eg see how ARS runs a terminus like Victoria SC. Fill, then empty. Where there are allowances in the timetable that confuse the expected running times (Edinburgh, early morning ECML) Where a track circuit is 'long' that confuses the clearing time (Edinburgh, Winchburgh chord) Log in to reply |
| ARS at Northallerton 13/08/2023 at 18:40 #152798 | |
GeoffM
6377 posts |
The reason SimSig real life ARS only considers the trains it can see is because ARS gets the entire timetable sent to it, with no knowledge of which trains will actually run - freight schedules especially. So holding one train for another that isn't even running today, or running very late, would be rather silly.
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| ARS at Northallerton 13/08/2023 at 20:24 #152800 | |
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bugsy
1775 posts |
Thanks everyone for the advice and information. I shall be more careful in future 
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| ARS at Northallerton 14/08/2023 at 07:26 #152804 | |
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Jan
906 posts |
bill_gensheet in post 152794 said:Where there are allowances in the timetable that confuse the expected running times (Edinburgh, early morning ECML) Which at least partially is due to a mismatch between how Simsig's ARS understands timetable allowances and current (?) timetabling practices – for a section between timing points A and B, Simsig's ARS currently expects (engineering) allowances to be noted down in the timetable at B, i.e. following the section with the allowance, however a random sample of Simsig timetables almost all [1] include that allowance at the timing point preceeding the respective section, i.e. at A. Plus I think with certain TD berth arrangments ARS gets additionally confused and applies the same allowance multiple times, making it predict that train to run possibly considerably earlier than what'll actually happen. [1] I only found one old SwinDid timetable that had allowances put down in the way expected by ARS, i.e. following the respective timetabling section, but that was very much the exception. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| ARS at Northallerton 14/08/2023 at 12:30 #152806 | |
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bill_gensheet
1418 posts |
Jan in post 152804 said:bill_gensheet in post 152794 said:I stayed with 'allowances A' on Edinburgh as having the least issues, discussed in #31317 and ARS behaved better after loader 5.7. The SwinDid example may be due to the 'zero time' ARS problems back in loader 5.4.Where there are allowances in the timetable that confuse the expected running times (Edinburgh, early morning ECML) Opendata shows allowances at 'A' currently: http://charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/livetrain/C19433/13/08/23 eg Abington - Carstairs Abington DM 02:38½ 04:40 122 Late Eng: 30 Carstairs South Junction 03:21 04:52 91 Late Old paper WTT often had allowances between A & B Log in to reply |
| ARS at Northallerton 14/08/2023 at 14:02 #152807 | |
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Dionysusnu
579 posts
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I prefer the B solution in SimSig. With method A, because already-passed locations aren't shown in the schedule view, the allowances are gone before the train actually reaches the point that it'll pass early. Method B makes it a lot easier to predict how late/early a train will be for a conflicting move. It also allows specifying the allowance between the entry location and the first timing point, which is not possible with method A.
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