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| Easements and all that 12/03/2010 at 13:38 #846 | |
northroad
872 posts |
Geoff M and Postal, We were getting off topic a bit there so I have started this thread. I have now spent just a small amount of time on your suggestion Postal and now don't know if I am coming or going. According to the EASEMENTS (and my humble opinion) it IS allowable for me on the return from Peterbrough to go into London and come back out to New Southgate, however on the outward leg it is not allowable for me to go into London and come back out and I must use the most direct/shortest route changing at Welwyn/Stevenage. (79 and 30130) This must be one of the most awkward documents I have ever read. The subject matter and it's enforcement by train staff must be horrendous......a discussion about interpretation, leading to an arguement, leading to confrontation.......I'm going to stick to the car. Geoff. Log in to reply |
| Easements and all that 12/03/2010 at 13:38 #7246 | |
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northroad
872 posts |
Geoff M and Postal, We were getting off topic a bit there so I have started this thread. I have now spent just a small amount of time on your suggestion Postal and now don't know if I am coming or going. According to the EASEMENTS (and my humble opinion) it IS allowable for me on the return from Peterbrough to go into London and come back out to New Southgate, however on the outward leg it is not allowable for me to go into London and come back out and I must use the most direct/shortest route changing at Welwyn/Stevenage. (79 and 30130) This must be one of the most awkward documents I have ever read. The subject matter and it's enforcement by train staff must be horrendous......a discussion about interpretation, leading to an arguement, leading to confrontation.......I'm going to stick to the car. Geoff. Log in to reply |
| Easements and all that 12/03/2010 at 15:03 #7247 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts 
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Not helped by the fact, as I pointed out to ATOC, that some easements are in fact restrictions which is counterintuitive to the meaning of easement. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Easements and all that 12/03/2010 at 15:31 #7248 | |
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northroad
872 posts |
Peter, Did you eat the full English this morning or the concise.....coming up with such words it probably meant that who ever you were talking to it went right over their heads..... Geoff Log in to reply |
| Easements and all that 12/03/2010 at 16:38 #7249 | |
postal
5264 posts |
Geoff I think that the routing guide has actually been tidied up a bit over the past few years - not least because of our own dear Clive. Have a look at the RossRail web-site (http://www.rossrail.co.uk/central/routeqn1.html) if you want to have a titter at the expense of the Routing Guide. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Easements and all that 12/03/2010 at 20:24 #7254 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts
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I think most ticket collectors only look for the obviously wrong ticket. They can't be expected to know all the ins and outs of the rulebook. I've taken printed documentation with me once for a slightly complicated ticket but it was never queried. Conversely though, I remember my boss told me a story about how several people in his carriage had been charged full wack for being on the "wrong" train but luckily had some sort of printed evidence that the ticket was valid for the journey he had. Ticket collector had to go back to the earlier passengers and apologise! But wasn't the ticket collector's fault: he'd been told by his boss, so he took the printed evidence to show his boss.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Easements and all that 13/03/2010 at 06:19 #7261 | |
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northroad
872 posts |
GeoffM/Postal Went a step further this morning and enlisted the help of the National Rail website.....hmmmmm. Seems that if I get a return from New Southgate to Peterborough travelling New Southgate to London, to PBO, to London KX to New Southgate the return fare will cost 37.30p. However if you do a bit more digging and split the journey into two tickets, return from New Southgate to Kings Cross costs 6.20p and return from KX to PBO costs 26.00p. Now maths was never my strong point but I make that 32.20p a saving of 5.10p or 14%. by going into London and depending on the train time I also get a quicker journey time overall. I thought that National Rail were obliged to give you the cheapest price available but apparently our survey says uh.uh.....(so how much did they take Joe Bloggs public for today) :: Geoff. Log in to reply |
| Easements and all that 13/03/2010 at 09:35 #7263 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
Geoff Another thing to watch on the longer distance journeys is the availability of Saver tickets. For example, there are 4 direct trains a day from KX to Alnmouth (08:00, 13:30, 15:30, 17:30). The 09:00 falls within the restricted period when savers are not permitted. However, the 09:45(ish) from Peterborough (which is the 09:00 off the Cross) is permitted. If you have to make a trip from Alnmouth to London and wish to return on the 09:00, you get a Saver Return from Alnmouth to Peterborough and the cheapest single valid on ECML trains from Peterborough to London (which the booking office at Alnmouth have to sell you). You then turn up at Kings Cross for the 09:00, purchase the cheapest single you can to Peterborough and use the return half of your saver from there. The last time I looked you saved about £50 on the round trip. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Easements and all that 13/03/2010 at 19:43 #7273 | |
clive
2789 posts |
Ticket sellers are obliged to give you the cheapest *ticket* that meets your needs, but not to check through two-ticket combinations. Looking at things, it appears there are two issues involved. Firstly, both New Southgate and London Terminals have FCC-only and "any permitted" tickets. The former are not allowed on East Coast, so that will affect the fastest train. Secondly, it doesn't seem that there's an "any permitted" cheap day ticket from New Southgate to Peterborough, while there is from London Terminals. If you're willing to stick to FCC, the cheapest ticket from New Southgate is 17.80 single, 18.00 day return. If you want to use East Coast, then the cheap day tickets are 25.90 single 26.00 return from KX while the savers from New Southgate are 36.50 and 37.50. Log in to reply |
| Easements and all that 13/03/2010 at 19:47 #7275 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
Easement 79 says it applies in both directions, so you can use it going out to Peterborough as well as returning. Easement 30130 makes no sense to me: "Journey from Harringay, Hornsey, [...] Welwyn North and Knebworth to Hitchin and beyond may travel via Stevenage." Um, what other way would you go? Log in to reply |