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| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 18/03/2010 at 16:08 #887 | |
spfish
56 posts |
I am having a problem with this train, arrives from Haymarket into P10 just before 0100 as 1B01 then reverses to join 1B16 sleeper. Next it detaches front 5B01, which makes sense, presumably taking some of the carriages to the siding. However, it gets stuck by saying it cannot move as 1B16 is in front. This suggests 1B01 has detached from the rear of the train (original direction) and cannot get out. Tried to change timetable to DR in case it is coded for the new direction (indeed, it seems to suggest this in the edit timetable box), but this still didnt work. Any ideas anyone? Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 18/03/2010 at 16:08 #7379 | |
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spfish
56 posts |
I am having a problem with this train, arrives from Haymarket into P10 just before 0100 as 1B01 then reverses to join 1B16 sleeper. Next it detaches front 5B01, which makes sense, presumably taking some of the carriages to the siding. However, it gets stuck by saying it cannot move as 1B16 is in front. This suggests 1B01 has detached from the rear of the train (original direction) and cannot get out. Tried to change timetable to DR in case it is coded for the new direction (indeed, it seems to suggest this in the edit timetable box), but this still didnt work. Any ideas anyone? Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 18/03/2010 at 17:38 #7384 | |
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spfish
56 posts |
Having gone back in the timetable further, the edit to have 5B01 detach rear rather than detach front seems to work, so long as it is done before the joining of the train to 1B16.
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| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 18/03/2010 at 20:50 #7393 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts 
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There was a last minute core code change to joining as per Clive's post elsewhere to solve a particular problem and it was not possible to check the effect on these timetables in time. If you have a definative fix then we can incorporate it into any future build. Thanks Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 18/03/2010 at 22:25 #7403 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
Clive's post expaling the problem: http://www.SimSig.co.uk/index.php?option=com_agora&task=topic&id=868&Itemid=54#p5810 The fix for this particular join/divide is to reverse 1B16 before the join starts, this will ensure that the joined train faces down and 5B01 divides off the up/east end. For experienced players or those who like a challenge, it is possible to shunt clear 5B01 via Mound Tunnel rev and retrieve the situation. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 00:15 #7407 | |
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spfish
56 posts |
Peter I'm sure Andy's suggestion will work, however on the next release just change the activity of 1B01 to detach 5B01 from the rear rather than the front. I always believed that if a shunt back as in this case, you would detach the front, which was the original front; however, in reversing back onto 1B16 the coding now seems to take the final direction as the one to determine the activity required. Whatever the coding, the simplest fix is to amend the timetable to DR instead of DF which works fine. Incidentally, the join of 1B01 to 1B16 (just ahead of detaching 5B01) took a bit of shunting about to make it happen, I shunted both forward and forced the timetable several times before the join commenced. All other joins and detaches have gone fine, I have ARS on which is working better than usual even though it did signal a late 6E23 out right ahead of the 0550 to Kings Cross, but even so it is a very busy timetable - the phone is driving me mad! Got to 0700 now. Thanks for all the hard work guys. Simon Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 09:52 #7421 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
I didn't have any trouble with the 1B01/1B16 join once I'd done the timetable edit recommended above, but I did have trouble with the 1M16 join. After the split of 5B01, 1M16-1 was too long to fit in P11 and fouled the crossovers, so 1M16 couldn't run into P10 directly. When I got it into P10 by reversing at 813, I then couldn't clear the shunt signal from P10 to P11 - again, because of the train in P11 fouling the crossovers. The trains then refused to join, until I'd edited 1M16's timetable to tell it to join at "Edinburgh Waverley (East)" rather than "Edinburgh Waverley (West)", because it was still officially in P10.
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| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 09:58 #7423 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts
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If someone can do a definative report on the necessary chages to the timetable I'll post it as a sticky. Thanks. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 10:27 #7424 | |
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spfish
56 posts |
I have just checked back and I didn't have a problem with the length of 1M16 - it fitted in P11 fine; however, as I said below I did do a bit of shunting back and forth which may have made a difference. 1M16 is 178m and 0M16-1 is 17m, I think they should fit the platform. Any observations elsewhere? Simon Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 11:07 #7428 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
ALL, Please, please read Clive's related post, it explains the source of the problem. There is no point in editing the TT to avoid the problem, it is caused by a random element of which way rounf the 2 parts join. If you alter the TT, chances are next time you'll be back to square 1. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 11:20 #7429 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts
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I thought Clive way saying it had been fixed and some timetables may now be 'wrong'. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 11:23 #7430 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
I think you've misunderstood Clive's post there. He said that the core code has been changed so that the behaviour is now consistent; and Peter's post above implies that Edinburgh has been released with that core code change. So, no randomness; and if you edit the timetable, you can expect it to work the same way next time. I also understood Clive's post to mean that there never was randomness with respect to specific trains in a timetable; a given train in a timetable would always behave in the same way, but different trains within a timetable would behave differently depending on the context; specifically, depending on which train had subsequent timetable locations following the join. Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 11:58 #7433 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
Footnote [2] of Clive's post; core code fix doesn't include the meet sims, ie the Scottish ones.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 12:05 #7434 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
AndyG said:Footnote [2] of Clive's post; core code fix doesn't include the meet sims, ie the Scottish ones.That's irrelevant - read the second paragraph of my post again. Editing the timetable will work, because a given train in a timetable will behave consistantly on the old sims. Furthermore, you're assuming that all the Scottish sims can be classed as "meet sims", which strikes me as rather unwarranted. I still believe that the history of this thread implies Edinburgh incorporates the core code changes, particular as 1B01 requires its timetable editing to split properly. Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 12:43 #7435 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts
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Having now waded through the 37 post discussion on the Bug board I now think that although Clive had the fixed code around the time of the release it was too late for the build that was released. As a point of information Andy has been heavily involved in both the Scottish sim development (including discussion I refer to) and in the arranging of Saturdays meet so does speak with some authority. As to the randomness or otherwise of the matter Bill's the expert as he spotted it in the first place. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 12:51 #7436 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
Forest: I'm afraid *you* are misunderstanding. (1) If I correctly understand something Geoff said, the fix for the problem got released too late for Peter to include it in the "meet" release. So that release may well still have the problem. (2) In many circumstances the behaviour was predictable, but there are some situations where it is essentially random. That is, running the same sim with the same timetable may have a divide happening at one end one time and the other end the next time. This is what the fix was trying to sort out. Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 13:28 #7440 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
clive said:In many circumstances the behaviour was predictable, but there are some situations where it is essentially random. That is, running the same sim with the same timetable may have a divide happening at one end one time and the other end the next time. This is what the fix was trying to sort out.Ah, I see - it wasn't clear that divides could be inconsistent in that sense. Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 15:34 #7450 | |
flymo
135 posts |
OK, my workaround for the UP sleepers is a bit of a fiddle but it does work. The up sleepers arrive into Edinburgh as 3 different arrivals, 1B16, 1B01 and 1M16 and leave again as one train as 1M16-1 towards Carstairs. The first train that arrives needs no intervention, it just does it's thing and works OK. The second rain that arrives, 1B01, I changed the divide command from DF to DR 5B01 so 5B01 will divide from the east end of the new train and allow itself to be shunted to MR2 as in it's timetable. At this point I think I changed the divide command for 1M16-1 for 0M16 from DR to DF this will also put 0M16 to the east of Edinburgh. The third train that arrives 1M16 needs a bit more work but as there are few other trains in the sim at that time it shouldn't be a huge problem. 1M16 cannot use the crossover between P10 & P11 and needs to go to Calton Tunnel signal E813 to reverse. I did this by abandoning the timetable and once stopped at the east end of Edinburgh I reversed the direction and set the signal into P10 and at the same time "run to a new timetable" of the same number setting the location to "Edinburgh East" which is second from last. I think I also had to instruct it to pass E455 at red then set E819 to clear to allow the train to proceed and join. You might need to alter the timetable of the existing 1M16 (the first 2 trains that have joined and are already in P11) from "down to "up' to make the join happen as the joiners must me heading in opposite directions. With me so far? Now the new 1M16-1 once the 2 joins have taken place and the old loco is detached needs to have it's location changed from Edinburgh West to include P11 (or P10 but I used P11 ensuring path W and line W are included (use f2>Timetable options>Edit to edit)) to ensure that the new 0M16-1 from the depot will attach when approaching from Mound Tunnel. It needs to see a train at P11 and if you don't change the location of the existing 1M16-1 to P11 it will not join. Phew, I need a lie down but all that I did above allows the sleepers to combine together and run as one train. This may not be the only solution but it worked for me. Hope it works for you if you have any problems. Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 18:39 #7466 | |
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GMac
71 posts |
Looks to me as if there's an error with one of the train lengths, as 1B01's sleepers plus the Aberdeen portion shouldn't be long enough to foul the middle crossover (although a quick 'shunt forward' when joining I think will sort the problem also). Putting the locos at the right locations isn't as big a problem, although it does require a bit of timetable jiggling and taking the new electric loco off ARS so it'll join as it's supposed to. GM Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 19/03/2010 at 20:33 #7474 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts
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Somewhere I have a step-by-step instruction on how to get it to work which I've not tested against the current timetable but it we never necessary to send it to Calton before. It was something I wanted to do but it was a mad rush this past week. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 27/03/2010 at 13:48 #7879 | |
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mjkerr
195 posts |
I know this isn't strictly 1B01, but I am having problems getting trains to split which I have never had in other scenarios as these have all been changes of headcode Equally, I read the manual I have and there is no mention of splitting or joining trains, and how to complete this I therefore decided to take the plunge and see what happens! I start Edinburgh at 03:00 5K21 arrives in Platform 14, then reports "finished dividing" I note this is DR:2P49 and N:2K21 So what exactly do the DR and N refer to? How do I tell which will leave first? (On Central Scotland I had a similar problem with th first DMU from Eastfied into Glasgow Queen Street) By examining the timetable (which seems a rather slow and inconvenient method) I established these leave at 05:18 (2P49) and 06:24 (2K21) I therefore changed 5K21 to 2P49, however on departure I am left which a red occupied train / section that I cannot change the headcode of 1S25-1 arrives in Platform 10/11 0S25-1 arrives in SLE, after which the locos detach, and I take them through Mound Tunnel W However, the same as above I am left with what I assume are the Fort William coaches, occupying a section and I cannot change the headcode Please advise DELETED Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 27/03/2010 at 14:05 #7880 | |
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sloppyjag
480 posts |
DR = Divide Rear and N = Next working. In the case of 5K21; 5K21 would arrive in Plat 14 and start to divide the 2P49 portion at the rear of the train in relation to the direction it was last traveling. The remainder of the train would become 2K21. 2P49 should leave first followed by 2K21. Planotransitophobic! Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 27/03/2010 at 14:22 #7882 | |
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mjkerr
195 posts |
sloppyjag said:In the case of 5K21; 5K21 would arrive in Plat 14 and start to divide the 2P49 portion at the rear of the train in relation to the direction it was last traveling. The remainder of the train would become 2K21. 2P49 should leave first followed by 2K21 Yes, as above that is what I have done, but after 2P49 leaves I am left with a red section of occupied track (ie the rear unit) but am unable to insert a new headcode for it The same problem happens with 1S25 The loco 0S25 leaves behind coaches which the loco 0A25 then seems to go through! DELETED Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 27/03/2010 at 14:33 #7883 | |
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sloppyjag
480 posts |
If ACI (Automatic Code Insertion) or ARS (Automatic Route Setting) is switched on the sim the headcode should insert automatically. If this doesn't happen (and ARS does go slightly loopy at times at Edinburgh so sometimes it is required) you can manually interpose the headcode by right clicking on either the signal at the end of the platform or the grey arrow at the head of the platform and selecting "Interpose Train Description" then type the headcode in the box and enter, or you can select "TD Interpose" from the menu bar, type the headcode in the box and click on the signal or arrow.
Planotransitophobic! Log in to reply |
| 1B01/5B01 at Waverley 27/03/2010 at 15:13 #7884 | |
postal
5265 posts |
mjk Most of the platforms at The Waverley have two TD berths. Right Click on the signal at the outward end to insert the TD for the first train to depart and right click on the grey triangle at the buffer stop end to insert the TD for the second train. It is similar at Glasgow Queen Street. Incidentally, if you did let the first train depart and then inserted the TD for the second train at the country end in the signal berth, the train would pick up the TD as it departed so it would bear a correct TD once it got to the next berth. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |