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| Dwell times - adhered to or not. 23/10/2017 at 19:31 #102475 | |
VInce
579 posts |
Hi all, I would have thought by this stage I would understand dwell times but, on my final test of the new 1977 Peterborough 6 day timetable under very disrupted conditions I've noticed a number (not all by any means) of ECS movement not adhering to their dwell times. Take an example like this : As timetabled - 1B10 arrives 03:47:00 : 5B10 departs without reversal at 03:52:00 I'm trying to achieve a realistic TRTS for 5B36 i.e. if 1B10 arrives early TRTS activates 4 minutes after actual arrival, if it arrives late, then TRTS activates four minutes after arrival to give one minute leeway. In all cases the ECS has the "d" option ticked so as it can depart early if required. As I see it there are two options :- 1) Train-type based station reverse and terminate reverse dwell times - doesn't seem to work at all. Trains activate TRTS immediately on arrival. In the case above 1B10 arrives 03:44:48 and TRTS activates at 03:44:50, despite the terminate forward dwell time being 4 minutes. Other tests show similar results for those trains that reverse i.e. the terminate reverse dwell time seems to be ignored. 2) Location based i.e at Peterborough in this instance which are supposed to over-ride the train-type dwell times. I've tried both placing a location dwell time in the last line of 1B10 (works sometimes) and in the first line of 5B10 (works sometimes) I confess to be a little baffled by this. Is it me - there's obviously something here that I thought I understood but I don't. Anyone any ideas what i should be doing - I've experimented with this for several days and got simply nowhere. I don't want to go down the route of a rule for every ECS movement in the timetable (there are a couple of hundred at least) but it seems rules are the only things that give consistent results. Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 23/10/2017 at 19:43 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Dwell times - adhered to or not. 23/10/2017 at 20:19 #102476 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
I don't know what the answer is, as I don't as a rule get involved in timetabling. However doing a rule for every train is certainly not the answer.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply The following user said thank you: VInce |
| Dwell times - adhered to or not. 24/10/2017 at 00:41 #102489 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
Hi all, Just to confirm my original thoughts.. I've run a series of test timetables using location dwell times and train type dwell times. The only one that actually works is the location based dwell placed in the first line of the ECS movement. It works logically - 3 minute location dwell at Peterborough Test train arrives 00:07:52 TRTS 00:09:53 i.e. 2 mins which is 1 minute before departure The train type dwell doesn't work, station forward/reverse and terminate forward/reverse set at 3 mins and TRTS is immediate on arrival. Not sure if that's a bug or not... The location is what I used throughout the new timetable so I'm even more confused that it doesn't seem to work in all cases. Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Last edited: 24/10/2017 at 00:43 by VInce Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Dwell times - adhered to or not. 24/10/2017 at 01:00 #102490 | |
postal
5265 posts |
There have been a number of topics and bug reports about dwell times over the years which have generally indicated that there is something not quite right about how the concept is working. The last topic on the matter brought forward a rather robust exchange of views and as I understand it the upshot is that the dwell time issue should be revised in the next core code update. Hopefully that will bring some stability to the way that things work. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 24/10/2017 at 01:01 by postal Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Dwell times - adhered to or not. 24/10/2017 at 01:29 #102491 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
postal in post 102490 said:There have been a number of topics and bug reports about dwell times over the years which have generally indicated that there is something not quite right about how the concept is working. The last topic on the matter brought forward a rather robust exchange of views and as I understand it the upshot is that the dwell time issue should be revised in the next core code update.Thanks for this I'm very grateful.. Just to finish it off I've just run another series of 10 tests like this: Test Train 1B00 5 min in Station Reverse/Forward and 5 min in Terminate Reverse/Forward Test Train 5B00 3 min location dwell at Peterborough In 9 of the 10 TRTS occurred for 5B00 after 2 minutes which is logical i.e. 1m in before departure. Once TRTS occurred after 7 minutes, which suggests 5 + 3 minutes again 1 min before departure. Still, if its rectified in the next update all will be right with the world. Thanks again Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Log in to reply |
| Dwell times - adhered to or not. 24/10/2017 at 10:16 #102493 | |
Danny252
1461 posts |
postal in post 102490 said:There have been a number of topics and bug reports about dwell times over the years which have generally indicated that there is something not quite right about how the concept is working.The first I recall of the issue was this report was back in 2015, with the suggestion that a change somewhere around version 4.3 of the loader resulted in unreliable adherence to dwell times: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/38974?postId=67438 Geoff raised it as Mantis 13617, but I've don't think I've ever seen a report of a fix/solution, and the number hasn't been mentioned in any of the version changes on the wiki. Last edited: 24/10/2017 at 10:17 by Danny252 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Dwell times - adhered to or not. 24/10/2017 at 10:29 #102494 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
Danny252 in post 102493 said:postal in post 102490 said:#13617 was marked as fixed on the 19th of August 2015.There have been a number of topics and bug reports about dwell times over the years which have generally indicated that there is something not quite right about how the concept is working.The first I recall of the issue was this report was back in 2015, with the suggestion that a change somewhere around version 4.3 of the loader resulted in unreliable adherence to dwell times: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/38974?postId=67438 "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Dwell times - adhered to or not. 24/10/2017 at 23:59 #102514 | |
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VInce
579 posts |
Hi all, At the risk of making myself look a complete fool - I might, just might have got a handle on how to use dwell times, after all this time. I think its a case of what is best to use for each scenario. For passenger trains arriving at a station, terminating and departing as another train, the train type dwell time seems to work. For passenger trains arriving, and departing a ECS to a siding, location based dwell times in the first line of the ECS movement seems to work. For trains arriving and departing requiring a fixed time in the station - say an old-school parcels or mail train, a rule appears to be the best option. ...and finally, for something like the Huntingdon turn-round in the 1977 timetable I've nearly finished, a location dwell time works at Huntingdon North (reverse) This may, of course, be complete tosh. YMMV as the internet geeks say... Vince I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me Log in to reply |