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Some information

You are here: Home > Forum > Simulations > Timetables > King's Cross > Some information

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Some information 09/09/2010 at 19:13 #1733
hornby0729
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33 posts 		Hello, I am thinking of writing a fictional TT for Kings Cross, but although it would be fictional it will also be realistic. So I am wondering if some people in this great community could share some expert knowledge. The types of information that I require I will list below:

  • What are the work practices of drivers for differnent TOCs (e.g. when do driver change overs occur and do they slow trains down, how long does a driver drive for before a break and what sort of shifts are common(and uncommon but still exsist))

  • What is the capacity of the depots (and sidings) on the sim and not on the sim but that are used by the TOCs that appear in the sim (Nene Valley Sidings - FCC)

  • What restrictions are imposed on train movements during the day and at night by Network rail apart from planned enginnering works

  • How long do trains need to turn around when they terminate (I understand that this will depend on the train)

  • What types and amounts of trains operate at the depots and sidings that are used by the TOCs featured on the Sim (those I have explained above)


This is a quick list that I have created and the list will grow has I think of things to ask. I do not expect quick answers has the questions may take time to answer.

Thank you for any help you may be able to provide.
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Some information 09/09/2010 at 19:13 #11334
hornby0729
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33 posts 		Hello, I am thinking of writing a fictional TT for Kings Cross, but although it would be fictional it will also be realistic. So I am wondering if some people in this great community could share some expert knowledge. The types of information that I require I will list below:

  • What are the work practices of drivers for differnent TOCs (e.g. when do driver change overs occur and do they slow trains down, how long does a driver drive for before a break and what sort of shifts are common(and uncommon but still exsist))

  • What is the capacity of the depots (and sidings) on the sim and not on the sim but that are used by the TOCs that appear in the sim (Nene Valley Sidings - FCC)

  • What restrictions are imposed on train movements during the day and at night by Network rail apart from planned enginnering works

  • How long do trains need to turn around when they terminate (I understand that this will depend on the train)

  • What types and amounts of trains operate at the depots and sidings that are used by the TOCs featured on the Sim (those I have explained above)


This is a quick list that I have created and the list will grow has I think of things to ask. I do not expect quick answers has the questions may take time to answer.

Thank you for any help you may be able to provide.
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Some information 09/09/2010 at 19:16 #11336
hornby0729
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33 posts 		hornby0729 said:

  • What types and amounts of trains operate at the depots and sidings that are used by the TOCs featured on the Sim (those I have explained above)


I have just realised that this sounds the same has the other bullet point futher up the list. What I mean is: In normal situations how much stock and what types of stock are stored in the depots and sidings and what services are these trains used for?
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Some information 09/09/2010 at 20:47 #11345
Peter Bennet
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5402 posts 		FCC run
41 x 313s
40 x 365s
12 x 317s
5 x 322s (but have some more expected December 2010)
Which all run on the GN lines out of KX.

Primary depot is Hornsey (suggest you have a look at Google Earth for size)
Around 9 lines of storage at Welwyn, each can take 8 car set- 2 or 3 at Hertford each line taking at least a 6 car and some storage at Letchworth and Cambridge- don't know the capacity and quite a bit at Peterborough.

East Coast run the 91 Mk4 sets and some HSTs- HSTs are based at Leeds, I believe, but there is space at Bounds Green for something like 10 91 sets at least (Google earth maybe assist).

Hull Trains and Grand Central are not based in the area but each have 4 or 5 trains to play with.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Some information 09/09/2010 at 20:59 #11346
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		One East Coast HST set stores in Bounds Green on Saturday night as it runs an early morning service off KingsX in the morning.

Grand Central have about two Class 180 Adelantes and the rest are Class 43 HST Power Cars with a rake of Mk3 carriages and often, if not almost always, use Ferme Park for overnight storage. Also don't forget about their two different services, the northern one to Sunderland and the "West Riding" one to Bradford.

I've previously seen a First Hull Trains Class 180 parked up overnight outside the main shed at Bounds Green.

Peter Bennet said:
5 x 322s (but have some more expected December 2010)
Class 321s, not 322s. In-fact 321/4s if I recall correctly.
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
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Some information 09/09/2010 at 21:11 #11347
ipswich
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247 posts 		Peterborough nene : about 12-15 lines most can hold 12 car units
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Some information 10/09/2010 at 13:23 #11359
hornby0729
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33 posts 		Thank you for your help, however I think that it may be best for me to ask the questions one at a time. So here is my first question.

Where are Grand central trains stored over night, how many in each location, when do they leave the depots/sidings in the Morning (Roughly)?
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Some information 10/09/2010 at 18:37 #11364
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		UKTrainMan said:
Grand Central ..... and often, if not almost always, use Ferme Park for overnight storage
At least one is in there per night however with the new West Riding service they may now be storing two per night.

I'll have to see if I can obtain the information for their ECS workings to/from Ferme Park CS.
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
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Some information 13/09/2010 at 06:16 #11423
officer dibble
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409 posts 		First Hull Trains Class 180 units are now outbased at the First Great Western HSTD located at Old Oak Common, as the fitters/shunters there have previous with the class, and there is an ECS move (5H01 IIRC) in the morning (the evening return escapes me, but 5V97 rings a bell). Confusingly there is also a path available to/from Bounds Green, and also to/from Ferme Park, but these are only used on very rare occasions nowadays.
When in doubt - Contingency plan 2A. Someone didn't buy the milk - 2A. Someone sneezed at Swansea - 2A. A driver complains the cab is too cold - 2A. Unable to operate a HEx service 4 vice 8 - 2A. Points failure at Ipswich - 2A. Landslip at Pitlochry - 2A
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Some information 13/09/2010 at 10:03 #11427
moonraker
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370 posts 		Ah thought I saw a 180 back at Old Oak last thursday when we were coming out of Padd on the way home. That explains that then.
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Some information 14/09/2010 at 10:28 #11444
Philo
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17 posts 		The 125 Group has the diagrams for their HST-sets and the 180s of Grand Central, among others.

www.125group.org.uk

Philo
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Some information 14/09/2010 at 18:28 #11445
hornby0729
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33 posts 		Philo said:
The 125 Group has the diagrams for their HST-sets and the 180s of Grand Central, among others.

www.125group.org.uk

Philo
Thank you all for your information, this information along with timings (and headcodes) that are from the May 2010 timetable (many thanks to the auther) are helping me for the time being...
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Some information 14/09/2010 at 18:45 #11446
officer dibble
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409 posts 		Might I also suggest this page from the East Coast website?

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/Travel-Information/

by clicking on the TT links, it gives you the Headcodes, under Train ID. (strangely "headcode" looks like a service reference no. rather that its ,ore usual usage).

Anyhoo, hope this helps you.
When in doubt - Contingency plan 2A. Someone didn't buy the milk - 2A. Someone sneezed at Swansea - 2A. A driver complains the cab is too cold - 2A. Unable to operate a HEx service 4 vice 8 - 2A. Points failure at Ipswich - 2A. Landslip at Pitlochry - 2A
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Some information 14/09/2010 at 19:05 #11448
hornby0729
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33 posts 		officer dibble said:
Might I also suggest this page from the East Coast website?

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/Travel-Information/

by clicking on the TT links, it gives you the Headcodes, under Train ID. (strangely "headcode" looks like a service reference no. rather that its ,ore usual usage).

Anyhoo, hope this helps you.
Thank you also but i had already seen this but will probably not use them too much has this will be a fictional timetable.
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Some information 14/09/2010 at 19:41 #11450
Chrisrail
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384 posts 		GBRf operate out of Ferme park on various workings as they do out of peterborough. DBS and DRS work scrap steel trains to Hitchin. DBS/FL work trains down the ECML that then take the NLL. Scotrail also use the Sim area at times when the sleepers are diverted.
GBRf are also involved in FCC driver training
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Some information 14/09/2010 at 19:55 #11451
Peter Bennet
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5402 posts 		Chris,

That reminds me, Ferme Park is also where rakes of Underground engineering trains are stored often with Cl66s attached- presumably they go out at night/weekends to the nearest LU access point; maybe they're for the 'Overground' works.

Peter
I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs!
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Some information 17/09/2010 at 19:05 #11554
hornby0729
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33 posts 		Thank you for all your help, I have barely got the structure/frequency of passenger trains yet let alone freight although I will come to those later.
For now would some be able to tell me where east coast can store trains on their route, the capacity of the depot/sidings and what type(s) of trains it can cater for?

Thanks again
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Some information 17/09/2010 at 19:32 #11558
UKTrainMan
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1803 posts 		Many trains leave KingsX as ECS and traverse the Down Goods / Down Slow 2 up to Alexandra Palace, onto the Hertford North line and go into Bowes Park Rev Sdg then into Bounds Green, with almost all of them travelling via Ferme Park CS and the carriage washer.

Other trains will be elsewhere and will use places like Neville Hill TMD (near Leeds) and I believe also Craigentinny CS (near Edinburgh Waverley and covered on SimSig Edinburgh) but that sort of information is pretty much irrelevant to creating a TT for KingsX.

Bounds Green is mainly for the 225 sets (Class 91 + 9xMk4s + DVT) and as I've already said one HST goes in on Saturday night so it is ready to work a service off KingsX on Sunday.

You should be able to work out capacity by looking at Google Earth/Maps (other providers are available).
Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for.
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Some information 18/09/2010 at 17:19 #11583
Chrisrail
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384 posts 		Chris,

That reminds me, Ferme Park is also where rakes of Underground engineering trains are stored often with Cl66s attached- presumably they go out at night/weekends to the nearest LU access point; maybe they're for the 'Overground' works.

Peter
Correct Peter

They are currently working Barking / Harrow / West Ruislip. I should know I timetable them. Apart from Ferme Park they also have workings in/out from Wellingboro and Tonbridge. Most if not all are Top n Tail
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Some information 04/02/2011 at 11:25 #13397
jamieP
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6 posts 		Hi there WGC has nine roads what can hold 1-4 roads hold 9 cars, 5 and 6 holds 8 cars, 7 and 8 holds 9 cars and the spure holds 6 cars. Peterborough Nene has roads 1-16 but donst have a 7 or 11 so has 14 roads. Most hold 8 cars only apart from 4 and 5 that are 12 car roads. At the moment we have 2 x12 cars and 6x 8 cars and 3 singles. In per night so thats 21 units. 4 x321s, 3x 317s and 14x 365s.
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