Derby 1992 Summer Timetable

It could be that you attached the EPSP loco after 1M12 had left during testing. The loco enters rather early.

Edit: 1V63/1V64 also conflict at Derby platform 4. This is not a stopping position issue.

Edit 2: 5V64's stopping position is also incorrect. I put it in P3, but there it does not leave space for a joining run-round loco.

I got the winter version, looks nice with some added shunts in the morning. One minor issue I noted so far: 5C06 arrives from Etches Park at 05:55 and detaches a loco that goes back into the yard. This train is called DYSPA, but shouldn't it have an EPSP headcode for the Etches Park pilot? The Derby station pilot DYSP is attached to 5D92 in the north dock at this time. Or did Derby have two station pilots?

Well, there are three pilots in-sim anyway at some point: 5C12 and 5G70 both detach a pilot (EPSP and DYSP, respectively) within minutes of each other, while the original DYSP is still in the north dock attached to 5D92, so you are probably right when you say there was a second DYSP.

[quote=Albert;post=121478]There should be two. The etches Park pilot and the station pilot (there were formerly two Station pilots Phil).

jc92 in post 121479 said:

[quote=Albert;post=121478]There should be two. The etches Park pilot and the station pilot (there were formerly two Station pilots Phil).

Thanks for confirming that Joe, I was pretty sure there were but not 100% sure. I recall that back in 1990-91 we had 1D82 mail arrive from St Pancras late at night, loco off to 4 Shed then the train was split and the two halves went simultaneously onto the front and rear of 1E03 which arrived shortly after. I'm pretty sure these simultaneous attaching moves were performed by north and west end jocko's and I'm hoping to get confirmation from a former colleague as I said earlier.

Phil-jmw in post 121482 said:

jc92 in post 121479 said:

[quote=Albert;post=121478]There should be two. The etches Park pilot and the station pilot (there were formerly two Station pilots Phil).

Thanks for confirming that Joe, I was pretty sure there were but not 100% sure. I recall that back in 1990-91 we had 1D82 mail arrive from St Pancras late at night, loco off to 4 Shed then the train was split and the two halves went simultaneously onto the front and rear of 1E03 which arrived shortly after. I'm pretty sure these simultaneous attaching moves were performed by north and west end jocko's and I'm hoping to get confirmation from a former colleague as I said earlier.

I'll confirm that too, Phil. I left just before this timetable started and moved from Derby PSB to be Regional Railways Chief District Controller at Nottingham but there was definitely a North End and a West end jocko which the signallers tracked by hanging a small white board tag over the button nearest to where they were....


Vince

VInce in post 121483 said:

Phil-jmw in post 121482 said:

jc92 in post 121479 said:

[quote=Albert;post=121478]There should be two. The etches Park pilot and the station pilot (there were formerly two Station pilots Phil).

Thanks for confirming that Joe, I was pretty sure there were but not 100% sure. I recall that back in 1990-91 we had 1D82 mail arrive from St Pancras late at night, loco off to 4 Shed then the train was split and the two halves went simultaneously onto the front and rear of 1E03 which arrived shortly after. I'm pretty sure these simultaneous attaching moves were performed by north and west end jocko's and I'm hoping to get confirmation from a former colleague as I said earlier.

I'll confirm that too, Phil. I left just before this timetable started and moved from Derby PSB to be Regional Railways Chief District Controller at Nottingham but there was definitely a North End and a West end jocko which the signallers tracked by hanging a small white board tag over the button nearest to where they were....


Vince

Thanks for that Vince, I was rather hoping you'd see this thread as I was pretty sure you'd be able to help, and reassure me that my memory hadn't completely turned to fuzz. Yes I remember those little white bakelite tags with holes in to go over the buttons. They also used to hang them on buttons for various sidings exit signals as reminders for moves waiting to depart. I seem to recall some of them were even engraved with the likes of 'HST', for example. Another reminder for the jocko's was to interpose 3.50 in the TD of the signal they were standing at (if it had one), a reference to Cl.08's 350hp. With modern TD's signalmen can actually interpose the word 'JOKO', but Derby didn't have that luxury back then. I do also recall the letters I,Q,R,U,W and Y could not be interposed in the TD letter field. Weekend ballast trains used to appear as 'R's on the ballast notice (6R01, 6R02, etc.,) but they were normally described as 6Lxx on Derby and Trent PSB areas for that reason.

Thanks again,

Phil.

Phil-jmw in post 121484 said:

VInce in post 121483 said:

Phil-jmw in post 121482 said:

jc92 in post 121479 said:

[quote=Albert;post=121478]There should be two. The etches Park pilot and the station pilot (there were formerly two Station pilots Phil).

Thanks for confirming that Joe, I was pretty sure there were but not 100% sure. I recall that back in 1990-91 we had 1D82 mail arrive from St Pancras late at night, loco off to 4 Shed then the train was split and the two halves went simultaneously onto the front and rear of 1E03 which arrived shortly after. I'm pretty sure these simultaneous attaching moves were performed by north and west end jocko's and I'm hoping to get confirmation from a former colleague as I said earlier.

I'll confirm that too, Phil. I left just before this timetable started and moved from Derby PSB to be Regional Railways Chief District Controller at Nottingham but there was definitely a North End and a West end jocko which the signallers tracked by hanging a small white board tag over the button nearest to where they were....


Vince

Thanks for that Vince, I was rather hoping you'd see this thread as I was pretty sure you'd be able to help, and reassure me that my memory hadn't completely turned to fuzz. Yes I remember those little white bakelite tags with holes in to go over the buttons. They also used to hang them on buttons for various sidings exit signals as reminders for moves waiting to depart. I seem to recall some of them were even engraved with the likes of 'HST', for example. Another reminder for the jocko's was to interpose 3.50 in the TD of the signal they were standing at (if it had one), a reference to Cl.08's 350hp. With modern TD's signalmen can actually interpose the word 'JOKO', but Derby didn't have that luxury back then. I do also recall the letters I,Q,R,U,W and Y could not be interposed in the TD letter field. Weekend ballast trains used to appear as 'R's on the ballast notice (6R01, 6R02, etc.,) but they were normally described as 6Lxx on Derby and Trent PSB areas for that reason.

Thanks again,

Phil.

Yes Phil they couldn't use A,B,I,J,N,Q,R,U,W and Y. There were historical reasons for that. It was an Midland line box they only used C,D,E,F,G,H,K,L,M,O,P,S,T,V,X and Z by arrangement with the other regions.

In the 70s, as far as Derby PSB was concerned, the following applied.

C - Trains terminating on the London (St. Pancras) division
D - Trains terminating at Nottingham
E - Trains terminating on the Eastern Region
F - Local trains starting and terminating on the Nottingham Division
G - Local trains terminating on the Birmingham Division
H - Trains terminating on the Manchester Division although in practice anything through Derby ran with an "M" since they had to pass through the Eastern from Chesterfield - Chinley and vv to rejoin the Midland Region
K - Trains terminating on the Stoke division
P - Trains terminating at Derby.
O - Trains terminating on the Southern Region
S - Trains terminating on the Scottish Region
V - Trains terminating on the Western Region
L & T were reserved for special services operating within the LM region.
Z - Inter-regional specials
X - were trains running with special conditions imposed.

All Crewe - Lincoln were 2E84
All Crewe - Nottingham were 2D84
All Derby - Lincoln were 2E85
All Lincoln - Crewe were 2M84
All Lincoln - Derby were 2M85
All Nottingham - Derby were 2P85
All Derby - Nottingham were 2D85
All Derby - Matlock and vv were 2P59
All Derby - Crewe were (I think) 2K84
All Crewe - Derby were possibly 2P84
All Birmingham locals were 2G67
All ECS to EP was 5P89
0F87 LD Derby shed

Vince...

Running the recently-re;eased V2.1.6 of this TT, 5E05 detaches from the front of 1E05 and shunts to the North End Dock, but instead of stopping behind DY461 GPL and detaching loco 0E05 he runs all the way in and calls up waiting at the buffer stop.

I don't recall this happening when I tested this TT prior to the V1.0 release. I've attached a save.

Regards,

Phil.

Phil-jmw in post 121495 said:

Running the recently-re;eased V2.1.6 of this TT, 5E05 detaches from the front of 1E05 and shunts to the North End Dock, but instead of stopping behind DY461 GPL and detaching loco 0E05 he runs all the way in and calls up waiting at the buffer stop.

I don't recall this happening when I tested this TT prior to the V1.0 release. I've attached a save.

Regards,

Phil.

I noticed that the instruction to detach was DR (Detach Rear) rather than DER (Detach Engine Rear) so amended it in F2 but still nothing happened. So I reversed him to come out of the dock and enter again to see if that would trigger a detach, but 5E05 stopped half way out of the dock and is detaching the loco. It's as if it only recognises the location DERBY on the way out of the dock and not on the way in. This definitely didn't happen during testing of the original 1992 TT. I've attached another save.

Phil-jmw in post 121497 said:

Phil-jmw in post 121495 said:

Running the recently-re;eased V2.1.6 of this TT, 5E05 detaches from the front of 1E05 and shunts to the North End Dock, but instead of stopping behind DY461 GPL and detaching loco 0E05 he runs all the way in and calls up waiting at the buffer stop.

I don't recall this happening when I tested this TT prior to the V1.0 release. I've attached a save.

Regards,

Phil.

I noticed that the instruction to detach was DR (Detach Rear) rather than DER (Detach Engine Rear) so amended it in F2 but still nothing happened. So I reversed him to come out of the dock and enter again to see if that would trigger a detach, but 5E05 stopped half way out of the dock and is detaching the loco. It's as if it only recognises the location DERBY on the way out of the dock and not on the way in. This definitely didn't happen during testing of the original 1992 TT. I've attached another save.

Update - I've just run a save from the previous TT version (V2.1.3), 5E05 stops as it should in the North Dock and detaches 0E05 without issue. What has changed in V2.1.6 that now makes this shunt move not work correctly?

I've attached two x V2.1.3 saves, one just before 5E05 detaches from 1E05, and one 5 mins later showing 0E05 detaching as it should in the North Dock.

As a matter of interest, what changes took place between V2.1.3 and V2.1.6? I notice the later version file size is slightly smaller.

Phil.

Phil-jmw in post 121508 said:

Phil-jmw in post 121497 said:

Phil-jmw in post 121495 said:

Running the recently-re;eased V2.1.6 of this TT, 5E05 detaches from the front of 1E05 and shunts to the North End Dock, but instead of stopping behind DY461 GPL and detaching loco 0E05 he runs all the way in and calls up waiting at the buffer stop.

I don't recall this happening when I tested this TT prior to the V1.0 release. I've attached a save.

Regards,

Phil.

I noticed that the instruction to detach was DR (Detach Rear) rather than DER (Detach Engine Rear) so amended it in F2 but still nothing happened. So I reversed him to come out of the dock and enter again to see if that would trigger a detach, but 5E05 stopped half way out of the dock and is detaching the loco. It's as if it only recognises the location DERBY on the way out of the dock and not on the way in. This definitely didn't happen during testing of the original 1992 TT. I've attached another save.

Update - I've just run a save from the previous TT version (V2.1.3), 5E05 stops as it should in the North Dock and detaches 0E05 without issue. What has changed in V2.1.6 that now makes this shunt move not work correctly?

I've attached two x V2.1.3 saves, one just before 5E05 detaches from 1E05, and one 5 mins later showing 0E05 detaching as it should in the North Dock.

As a matter of interest, what changes took place between V2.1.3 and V2.1.6? I notice the later version file size is slightly smaller.

Phil.

Not sure if I'm honest. The only thing I can think of is I beleive it changed at one point from 2 vans to 3 based on new information received.

A WTT file is in fact a ZIP containing two files: the timetable itself in XML format and a timetable header which contains a copy of the name and description. I guess the loader only reads the header file, and the TT editor only changes the main file. (It is possible to edit these by hand, but SimSig will show a warning if you load a TT that was edited that way.)

Albert in post 121512 said:

A WTT file is in fact a ZIP containing two files: the timetable itself in XML format and a timetable header which contains a copy of the name and description. I guess the loader only reads the header file, and the TT editor only changes the main file. (It is possible to edit these by hand, but SimSig will show a warning if you load a TT that was edited that way.)

I'm sure I've changed .WTT file names in the C/Users/Public/Public Documents/Simsig/Timetables/(whichever sim) folder in the past and had them show as such in the TT selection window.

Edit - Correction, it may be just when I've edited a TT and then done a 'Save As'.

Phil-jmw in post 121514 said:

Albert in post 121512 said:

A WTT file is in fact a ZIP containing two files: the timetable itself in XML format and a timetable header which contains a copy of the name and description. I guess the loader only reads the header file, and the TT editor only changes the main file. (It is possible to edit these by hand, but SimSig will show a warning if you load a TT that was edited that way.)

I'm sure I've changed .WTT file names in the C/Users/Public/Public Documents/Simsig/Timetables/(whichever sim) folder in the past and had them show as such in the TT selection window.

Edit - Correction, it may be just when I've edited a TT and then done a 'Save As'.

IIRC and amplifying what Albert has written, if you edit the description of the TT on the front tab of the F4 window, close the F4 window then save the TT, that carries over to the TT name shown when you are loading a new game.

I've attached a save from just before 7A23 calls up for anyone to try and another with him in the dead end at the buffer stop.

I didn't know you could amend and save the name that way, but thanks for the tip. I was referring to when you edit as required, close the F4 window, then go to Timetable/Save As on the clock window, and give your edited TT a new name.

Phil-jmw in post 121516 said:

I've attached a save from just before 7A23 calls up for anyone to try and another with him in the dead end at the buffer stop.

I have reproduced it and did some testing, it happens if you don't press F on the ground frame quickly enough (nearly a minute). If the ground frame is still locked by the time the train reaches the point, the train does not appear to 'see' signal 8. Sim bug, not sure if it's been reported already.