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| Restricted acceptance in today's world 14/12/2019 at 23:49 #122281 | |
TUT
532 posts 
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I gather that restricted acceptance grew out of, or perhaps I should say, shrunk from, the old "section clear but station or junction blocked". These days you are permitted to use it only during single line working or when an engineering train is to enter a T3 possession of the line where the work-site marker board is within the clearing point. So, can I just check I've got this straight. Presumably then you have a T3 possession taken from the home signal. Protection must, by necessity, be sub-standard or else you wouldn't have a WSMB in the clearing point - probably at or close to the home signal - and the WSMB will be at or close to the detonators. You have a train to enter the possession, which has already been taken. Signal box A requires to send the train to you and you're gonna stop it at the home signal for it to enter the possession. In this situation you must accept the train using restricted acceptance? Log in to reply |
| Restricted acceptance in today's world 15/12/2019 at 06:55 #122283 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Yes. Assuming you are working under TS3 the appropriate block will be over at train on line as a WSMB within the clearing point is one of the five reasons to block back inside the home signal. If the block controls allow it, you'd give a line clear to the box in rear once you've accepted it under restricted acceptance. Chances of needing to use this regulation, slim I'd say. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 15/12/2019 at 06:56 by headshot119 Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Restricted acceptance in today's world 16/12/2019 at 01:39 #122292 | |
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TUT
532 posts
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Thanks headshot119. I'm picturing something like this (clearing point shown in pink):  Is that about the long and short of it? I wasn't sure where to put the detonator protection. "As close to the standard distance as possible" is the Rule Book answer, but I dunno if my diagram is representative of a likely location. headshot119 in post 122283 said: Chances of needing to use this regulation, slim I'd say.I'm tempted to replace the word "needing" there with "getting", but yes I should imagine so. Can you think of any plausible scenarios? I wondered whether an example might be where the possession is being taken to carry out work on the line within the clearing point -- maybe there's a crossing there that needs work done on it, or perhaps there is point work or whatever, but for whatever reason it is not desirable to take possession of the block section as well -- perhaps to allow shunting movements at the other end, or so that an intermediate siding can still be served? Last edited: 16/12/2019 at 01:39 by TUT Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Restricted acceptance in today's world 16/12/2019 at 19:07 #122312 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
Your diagram is pretty much the situation. The dets and PLB would obviously need to be beyond the signal, but I suspect if the scenario was ever to occur they'd be pretty much straight after the signal to give as much room between the dets and WSMB as possible. The scenario you have given is plausible, but these days I'd expect the possession to extend back to the box in rears section signal, even if that meant not being able to serve the intermediate siding. "Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Restricted acceptance in today's world 16/12/2019 at 19:24 #122314 | |
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TUT
532 posts
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Thank you so much headshot, I really appreciate your help. I actually had a little look in the ES's handbook, Handbook 12, and it states: Quote: If your work site will be close to the detonator protection for the possession, the WSMB must normally be placed at least 100 metres (approximately 100 yards) from that detonator protection.So my thinking was if the possession was being taken to do work in the clearing point it strikes me as unlikely that there would be room for the work, plus an additional 100 metres to the dets (especially when you think they're supposed to be 20 metres apart, so the detonator protection is surely theoretically 40 metres itself), so the WSMB is likely to have to be located at the dets, wouldn't you say? Log in to reply |
| Restricted acceptance in today's world 16/12/2019 at 19:45 #122315 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
Having read that extract, I'd say it's even less likely that they'd go with this scenario these days. But if it did go ahead I'd agree the WSMB must go at the dets.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Restricted acceptance in today's world 16/12/2019 at 19:46 #122316 | |
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TUT
532 posts
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Hmmmm and I suppose if we did keep the intermediate siding open to traffic, how would we then be able to run anything into it? Given that regulation 3.5 states "you may only use restricted acceptance when an engineering train is to enter a T3 possession of the line where the work-site marker board is within the clearing point" or in connection with single-line working in the case of AB. 🤔 It's odd isn't it? It is hard to think of a situation in which it would come up. Cutting down on mileage for possession support staff maybe? 
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| Restricted acceptance in today's world 22/12/2019 at 04:00 #122381 | |
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TUT
532 posts
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Sorry to come back to this after a few days away from my own question, life came along, but would it be possible to implement working to and from the point of obstruction in this case? That could then provide a justification for not taking possession of the entire section for at least part of the time, if the work will last a long time perhaps and it is desirable to maintain passenger services to a relatively important station, freight services to a relatively important siding, or perhaps to allow a special service to run to serve an event or something like that. If the work were to last a long time, it might then be necessary for trains to come and go, which would lead to the use of the regulation. I'll tell you what, though, if anyone has ever done it, I hope they took notes for posterity
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| Restricted acceptance in today's world 25/12/2019 at 04:04 #122506 | |
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TUT
532 posts
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I do apologise to uh keep going on about this, but another thing's just occurred to me, which is that, of course, the work-site marker boards are supposed to be placed 100 m from each end of the work-site. Which of course means that the work could be taking place outside of the clearing point, but the WSMB has had to be placed within the clearing point to achieve that 100 m distance. I dunno if that makes use of this regulation more or less likely, really. It does strike me that if the possession is not planned, but is being taken to remove a derailed train or other obstruction, or something like that, the scenario could crop up. Log in to reply |