Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT

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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 15:30 #128224
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		When starting the sim with the Sun 2017 TT in 2016 mode I get a message saying TT may not be compatible with sim era.
I cancel the message, open the TT and merge it with the extra trains add-on.
I then turn off all the ARS as it's quiet, and start the sim.
At 0710 5S12 enters at Longsight North Shed Sdgs, as it does so I get an Internal Error dialog box pop up relating to 5S12 (see attached photo), stating "Internal Error: Exception: 5S12 in Enter (EInvalidOp: Invalid floating point operation)".
I closed the dialog box and made a save immediately afterwards (see attached, + I couldn't save with the box open) and then 5S12 departs Longsight.
5A86 bells out ready on Pfm.2 at Piccadilly while 5S12 is proceeding from Longsight to the Up & Dn Goods, but when I try to set a route I discover the sim has frozen. Routes cannot be set or cancelled, 5A86's TRTS button is illuminated but does not flash, and I cannot save the sim in this state. The only option is to exit the sim.

I have tried this twice and the same sequence of events happened on both occasions.

Phil.
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 15:56 #128229
jc92
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Online 		as per the timetable notes the 2017 tt is to be run in 2019 mode which is why you're getting the initial error message. the layout is really a 2018 layout which was partially complete in 2017 in time for the timetable steamer has replicated.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 16:04 #128231
Steamer
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Online 		jc92 in post 128229 said:
as per the timetable notes the 2017 tt is to be run in 2019 mode which is why you're getting the initial error message. the layout is really a 2018 layout which was partially complete in 2017 in time for the timetable steamer has replicated.
I've raised Mantis 30878 request a change to the era name; the layout changes were largely complete for the December 2017 timetable change.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 16:20 #128235
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		jc92 in post 128229 said:
as per the timetable notes the 2017 tt is to be run in 2019 mode which is why you're getting the initial error message. the layout is really a 2018 layout which was partially complete in 2017 in time for the timetable steamer has replicated.
The accompanying notes with the TT state it should be run in 2016 mode. Notes attached.
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Last edited: 27/06/2020 at 16:21 by Phil-jmw
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 16:24 #128238
Steamer
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Online 		Phil-jmw in post 128235 said:
jc92 in post 128229 said:
as per the timetable notes the 2017 tt is to be run in 2019 mode which is why you're getting the initial error message. the layout is really a 2018 layout which was partially complete in 2017 in time for the timetable steamer has replicated.
The accompanying notes with the TT state it should be run in 2016 mode. Notes attached.
Apologies, looks like that reference slipped through the net. The TT should be run in 2019 mode.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 16:48 #128253
jc92
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Online 		Phil-jmw in post 128235 said:
jc92 in post 128229 said:
as per the timetable notes the 2017 tt is to be run in 2019 mode which is why you're getting the initial error message. the layout is really a 2018 layout which was partially complete in 2017 in time for the timetable steamer has replicated.
The accompanying notes with the TT state it should be run in 2016 mode. Notes attached.
and steamers updated notes on the post from yesterday provided an update to this: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/47452
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays"
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 16:59 #128258
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		jc92 in post 128253 said:
Phil-jmw in post 128235 said:
jc92 in post 128229 said:
as per the timetable notes the 2017 tt is to be run in 2019 mode which is why you're getting the initial error message. the layout is really a 2018 layout which was partially complete in 2017 in time for the timetable steamer has replicated.
The accompanying notes with the TT state it should be run in 2016 mode. Notes attached.
and steamers updated notes on the post from yesterday provided an update to this: https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/ThreadView/47452
And that is what I downloaded at 1311hrs today, and it states in both the TT details in the files section and in the txt file accompanying the TT's, 'run in 2016 mode'. I've even downloaded it again to make sure I'm not going mad. 'Run in 2016 mode'.

Anyway, I'm now running in 2019 mode, and the sim has frozen again with 5S12 half way out of Longsight. The odd thing is that the time is ticking on, but it's not possible to do anything in the sim.
Last edited: 27/06/2020 at 17:01 by Phil-jmw
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 17:42 #128270
Steamer
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Online 		Phil-jmw in post 128258 said:

Anyway, I'm now running in 2019 mode, and the sim has frozen again with 5S12 half way out of Longsight. The odd thing is that the time is ticking on, but it's not possible to do anything in the sim.
Can you confirm all of the options you're using, and your Loader and Sim versions? I've run the attached save and the train runs without issues, and it runs fine on a clean start as well.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 19:07 #128280
postal
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Online 		Going off at a tangent, is the era setting in the Scenarios tab of the TT set to 2019? This might avoid the wrong era problem.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 19:52 #128284
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		Steamer in post 128270 said:
Phil-jmw in post 128258 said:

Anyway, I'm now running in 2019 mode, and the sim has frozen again with 5S12 half way out of Longsight. The odd thing is that the time is ticking on, but it's not possible to do anything in the sim.
Can you confirm all of the options you're using, and your Loader and Sim versions? I've run the attached save and the train runs without issues, and it runs fine on a clean start as well.
Now here's the curious thing. Despite running Loader v5.2 and sim v2.0 (the latest version with ARS), when I click on Help/About it says for the previous saves Sim V1.4. Another curious thing is that 5S12 always enters non-ARS, but it does not have 'Enter non-ARS' ticked in its characteristics.

I did receive an update about an hour ago but that was just for Hereford, but nonetheless I've made a clean restart to see if that may have made any diffeence and checked Help/About, which confirms Loader v5.2, sim v2.0. 5S12 once again enters non-ARS, and the sim partly freezes again with 5S12 half way out of Longsight Depot. Partly in that routes can be set (entry buttons don't flash though) but signals don't clear, the clock ticks on and I can receive calls. And again when I try to make a save I get the Windows 7 revolving circle (egg timer in really old money).

I just tried another clean restart and found the following:-
5S12 entered non-ARS again.
5S12 held back until 5A02 had arrived at Man Picc and 5B86 had departed for the airport.
5S12 routed via DFL rather than booked GL. This worked but 5S12 left its description behind at every signal it passed (including the exit from Longsight but I cancelled that one). (see attached second save).
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Last edited: 27/06/2020 at 19:54 by Phil-jmw
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 20:06 #128286
Steamer
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Online 		I've run the 07:00:44 save, and again can't reproduce the issue.

My only suggestion would be to delete the .sim file and re-install it.

EDIT: Has anyone else had the same issue as Phil-jmw with this TT?
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
Last edited: 27/06/2020 at 20:13 by Steamer
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 21:26 #128309
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		Steamer in post 128286 said:
My only suggestion would be to delete the .sim file and re-install it.
I deleted and re-installed as you suggested. I ran a fresh start but the internal error occurred again when 5S12 entered, only this time when I closed the error dialog box the sim just crashed.
Last edited: 27/06/2020 at 21:26 by Phil-jmw
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 21:46 #128311
VInce
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579 posts 		I've just run Phil's 07:00:44 save (twice) with no problem.

Sorry Phil, can't replicate this.

Vince
I walk around inside the questions of my day, I navigate the inner reaches of my disarray, I pass the altars where fools and thieves hold sway, I wait for night to come and lift this dread away : Jackson Browne - The Night Inside Me
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 22:38 #128339
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		VInce in post 128311 said:
I've just run Phil's 07:00:44 save (twice) with no problem.

Sorry Phil, can't replicate this.

Vince
Ok thanks Vince, no worries. I'm puzzled that it happens at all, when no-one else has had trouble themselves or been able to replicate it from my save, but I'm even more puzzled that it only seems to happen when I send 5S12 via the Goods line, but not via the Down Fast (although it does leave its TD behind via the Fast which is another puzzle in itself).

Regards,

Phil.
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 27/06/2020 at 23:26 #128349
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		Ok, I've deleted and reinstalled (downloaded via update) the sim file again and this time decided to let ARS do it all.

5S12 still enters non-ARS and throws up the now familiar internal error dialog box (but didn't crash the sim this time).

New issue arising:- ARS sets routes incorrectly for 5B86 to depart Man Picc Pfm.2. Should set from Pfm.2 352 Sig via 342 Sig Dn East - 324 Sig UFL but instead sets the following 352 - 342 - 322 Up East and 324 Up Fast - 302 - 97 Up Fast.

I've attached saves from just prior to 5S12 entering and just after ARS sets routes for 5B86.

Phil.

Edit - And once again 5S12 running via the U&DG to Ardwick Jn (just to see if sim file reinstall made any difference) causes the sim to freeze and not save.
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Last edited: 27/06/2020 at 23:42 by Phil-jmw
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 28/06/2020 at 19:21 #128439
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		In order to try and get to the bottom of this issue I have now uninstalled and reinstalled the system files, deleted and redownloaded (via the updater) the sim file and deleted and redownloaded the timtable file, all to no avail. One more thing I have noticed though is that even though 5S12 enters the sim it does not 'grey out' in the F4 timetable list, is this significant? The sim will not save at this point so unfortunately I can't load a save, but the attached photo shows what's happening, including the erratic ARS for 5B86 plus the fact that track circuits are not clearing behind 5B86 or 5S12, and also 5S12 has interposed its description twice on the U&DG and left its description behind at MP76 Sig.
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Last edited: 28/06/2020 at 19:22 by Phil-jmw
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 28/06/2020 at 19:50 #128444
Steamer
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Online 		Can you confirm what options you're selecting on start-up?

Are you doing anything else after starting the simulation other than letting ARS do everything?
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 28/06/2020 at 21:16 #128461
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		Steamer in post 128444 said:
Can you confirm what options you're selecting on start-up?

Are you doing anything else after starting the simulation other than letting ARS do everything?
Normal scenario. Start sim paused (or not, have tried both). Sim era 2019. ARS enabled (then have experimented with ARS turned both on and off in the actual sim). I also tried changing 5S12's entry location in F4 to Longsight (MP75) just to see if it would enter under ARS there but it still entered non-ARS and still gave the internal error described earlier. I forgot to mention in my last post that after deleting/uninstalling and reinstalling the various components I rebooted the PC, just to see if it might make a difference.

Having spent some time with it this afternoon trying the various things listed above I'm going to start a fresh sim and run 5S12 via the Dn Fast to Man Picc (albeit non-ARS (it can't be made ARS) and leaves its description in every TD berth along the way but does form its correct workings at Man Picc) as this works without freezing the sim functions mentioned, and will wait to see if I get a recurrence with another Longsight departure.

Phil.
Last edited: 28/06/2020 at 21:17 by Phil-jmw
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 28/06/2020 at 21:29 #128464
Steamer
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Online 		To be honest, I don't know what else to try. I can only ask that anyone else who experiences this issue reports it, and that a developer takes a look at the error message you report.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q)
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 28/06/2020 at 21:45 #128466
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		Steamer in post 128464 said:
To be honest, I don't know what else to try. I can only ask that anyone else who experiences this issue reports it, and that a developer takes a look at the error message you report.
Ok thanks Steamer, and thanks for your perseverance so far, especially as it has worked normally for you and Vince. It does seem like we've exhausted every avenue for now. Unless one is caused by the other, it does seem to me that the sim freeze when running via the Goods could be unrelated to the error message as 5S12 will get to Man Picc without incident (other than the residual TD issue) when routed via the DFL.

Regards,

Phil.
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 28/06/2020 at 23:13 #128484
Phil-jmw
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675 posts 		I think I've bottomed it! It would appear trains don't like being timed from Longsight to the U&DG towards Ardwick Jn (on my copy of the sim at least). This became apparent after the sim ran without incident until following sequence of events unfolded:-
0754 5O10 entered at North Shed Sdgs MP76 non-ARS (but no internal error received). Train timed GL.
0759 5H47 entered at Hyde Road Sdgs MP77 non-ARS (again no internal error received). Train timed GL.

Now came the Eureka moment. 5A63 had previously entered at Hyde Road Sdgs without incident. Crucially 5A63 is timed via FL not GL.

Next step, start new sim and retime 5S12 via FL in the timetable list.
0710 5S12 enters in ARS. Result!
0715 5S12 routed via U&DG just to see what happened. Train went non-ARS as expected as being routed GL not FL but no sim freeze. 2nd result! Will now amend further workings timed GL and see what happens.

The only thing I didn't check was 5B86's ARS routing as I'd turned ARS off to watch what happened to 5S12.

Regards,

Phil.
Last edited: 28/06/2020 at 23:16 by Phil-jmw
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 09/07/2020 at 01:48 #129342
bnsf734
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60 posts 		I have had the same problem and error message tonight running the new V2 2020 timetable with the sim in 2019 mode and version 5.3 loader. Luckily Phil saw my message on the 2020 timetable message board and pointed me towards his fix, which also worked for me.

My train was 5C31 from Longsight Hyde Road which entered, displayed the error box but did not get recorded within the sim as having entered so another 5C31 then entered. Also trains on the sim were not clearing their routes after the error occured.

Not sure why routing via the UDG line between Longsight North and Ardwick should cause this curious error, but only on certain machines. Definitely an odd one.

Calvin
Last edited: 09/07/2020 at 01:56 by bnsf734
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 09/07/2020 at 01:51 #129343
bnsf734
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60 posts 		Steamer in post 128286 said:
I've run the 07:00:44 save, and again can't reproduce the issue.

My only suggestion would be to delete the .sim file and re-install it.

EDIT: Has anyone else had the same issue as Phil-jmw with this TT?
Yes, it has happened to me tonight. See report just above this message.
Last edited: 09/07/2020 at 01:55 by bnsf734
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 17/07/2020 at 13:23 #129701
Meld
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1111 posts 		I would appreciate if the users having issues with this error could please download and try this test TT

I've added a file for all northbounds out of Longsight between, 0400 & 0800 when they arrive Picc just delete them via F2.

There are no seeds so you need to set start time to 0400.

The TT is an extract of the current 2015 TT bundled with the loader which was made from a new import as opposed to converting the original. Each path was individually validated after assigning which entry point was to be used.

2019 TT just added with same provisios as the 2015 (5C31 retimed to enter just after 0400 for testing purposes)

Please give this a try and see if anyone can get the Exception Error to occur
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Last edited: 17/07/2020 at 14:30 by Meld
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Sim Freeze With Sun 2017 TT 17/07/2020 at 17:47 #129711
bnsf734
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60 posts 		Hi Meld

Thanks for the new files.

I have downloaded both timetables and ran both 2015 TT in 2015 mode and 2019 TT in 2019 mode and got the same error each time. When I ran the 2015 TT in 2015 mode after I got the error pressed OK then got a message from windows say Simsig loader had stopped working. Pressed OK and the sim finished. In 2019 mode after the error the sim stays working although doing strange things.

Willing to try other testing, just let me know what you want testing.

Calvin
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