Page 1 of 2
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:23 #2375 | |
UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
For the bell codes, I do know of this bell code list from Clive himself which I think is a useful list. Perhaps an additional idea would be to generate a list of the bell codes from that which are likely to be needed. This almost certainly wouldn't include something like "1-1-6 Police assistance urgently required" or "7 Stop and examine train" but would still include many of the others on/from that list. Perhaps this suggested list (and also what BoxBoyKit has created) could also be added to the Wiki at some point, maybe even on a dedicated page for AB signalling? Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:23 #13510 | |
|
UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
For the bell codes, I do know of this bell code list from Clive himself which I think is a useful list. Perhaps an additional idea would be to generate a list of the bell codes from that which are likely to be needed. This almost certainly wouldn't include something like "1-1-6 Police assistance urgently required" or "7 Stop and examine train" but would still include many of the others on/from that list. Perhaps this suggested list (and also what BoxBoyKit has created) could also be added to the Wiki at some point, maybe even on a dedicated page for AB signalling? Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:29 #13511 | |
|
Late Turn
699 posts |
Zoe said:By the time the signalman had seen the runaway though, the block would likely have been forced to TOL so the signalman at the box in rear would understand the block to be occupied even if they Obstruction Danger had not been sent. That assumes he observes the block go to TOL. I've always understood one of the main reasons for sending 6 bells for something unexpectedly approaching your home signal, even if you've accepted a train but not received TES, is that there's the distinct possibility that the 'unexpected' train could well be a previous train for which TOOS had been sent in error (Welwyn??). That being the case (ILC acknowledged for the second train but TES not received), the chap in rear's most likely all off for the second train and six bells would therefore be most appropriate to avoid 'two in a bed'! Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:31 #13512 | |
|
Zoe
252 posts |
BoxBoyKit said:With regards to my knowledge of which way roudn 2-5-5 and 4-5-5 are, I only know single line rules properly so we don't have a 4-5-5 In that case I expect 5-2 and 2-5 have different meanings to you then. Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:33 #13514 | |
|
BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
With regards to my knowledge of which way roudn 2-5-5 and 4-5-5 are, I only know single line rules properly so we don't have a 4-5-5 
Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:35 #13515 | |
|
Zoe
252 posts |
By the time the signalman had seen the runaway though, the block would likely have been forced to TOL so the signalman at the box in rear would understand the block to be occupied even if they Obstruction Danger had not been sent.
Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:36 #13516 | |
|
Danny252
1461 posts |
kbarber said:Of course the Gas Works Railway had to be different and used 2-2-2 for a sort-of restricted acceptance described as "Line Clear to Clearing Point Only"More commonly (and conveniently!) referred to as Reg 4A - not to be confused with 4a, of course. Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:37 #13517 | |
|
Late Turn
699 posts |
BoxBoyKit said:The reason I put 2/4-5-5 was because whilst looking around the Sims, I found in the Incident Control Panel (F11) an option to tell a train to "Pass next signal irrespective of aspect..." which I took to mean in theory, if they wanted, the host could order a train to pass a section signal at danger without it having been accepted by the box in advance, in which case the signalman in rear would need to send 2-5-5. I realise however 4-5-5 is a bit unnecessary, unless the host instructed the train to pass a LOS board if that's possible? I think you might need to review the meanings of 2-5-5 and 4-5-5 and swap them around  . You're right though, you would want to send 4-5-5 (running away right direction) in that situation.
Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:38 #13518 | |
|
kbarber
1742 posts |
Peter Bennet said:Checking through I can only find one special code Now that's very interesting. Do you have access to the Greenloaning instructions please? They should have some clause that relates to these trains/differentiates them from standard TES. The only time I've come across 2-2-2 as a TES was for routing purposes; St Albans South used it on the up for (IIRC) freight trains routed to the goods lines at Silkstream Junction. They also used 2-2-4 for such trains routed towards Dudding Hill. My first box, Junction Road, used 2-2-4 as TES for trains (any class) routed towards Tottenham South Junction at South Tottenham; I wonder if 2-2-2 had once been used for trains towards Tottenham North Junction, and of course deleted when the north curve closed. Of course the Gas Works Railway had to be different and used 2-2-2 for a sort-of restricted acceptance described as "Line Clear to Clearing Point Only" (Clive's list has the signal but not the full meaning). They seem to have done this in preference to distant indicator working or multiple slotting of distants, when there wasn't full braking distance from a distant under the previous boxes starter. 2-2-2 would be used to accept a train where a signalman had the full 1/4 mile clearing point but where he was not in a position to clear all his signals for the approaching train; when he accepted with 2-2-2 he would leave his block normal until the offering box repreated the 2-2-2. The offering signalman would then place a collar on his distant and pull off his stop signals normally. The train would then receive a caution at the rear boxes distant, find all stop signals off at that box but get a caution at the starter which, as he'd already slowed considerably, would give plenty of braking distance. The very peculiar thing was that there was no way of "upgrading" a 2-2-2 (unlike 3-5-5, which could be upgraded to a normal acceptance by 3-3-5). Therefore the rear signalman would often not repeat the 2-2-2 until he absolutely had to, in the hope that the advance signalman would find himself in a position to pull off and would then accept normally. Indicator working meant that, instead of (or in addition to) a signal, the distant lever worked an indicator disc in the box in rear. The rear signalman was required to keep his distant at caution until the indicator moved to clear. In the early days the indicator was mechanical and not connected to any gear in the rear box. But later on it could be replaced by an electric indicator, as at Junction Road. Junction Road's down starter had Upper Holloway's distant beneath it, which gave plenty of braking distance for trains coming up the climb from Carlton Road. But trains from the Gospel Oak direction approached down a steep gradient and Junction Road was required to maintain his distant at caution until Upper Holloway had pulled off; consequently there was an illuminated indicator on the block shelf above 28 lever and there was also a lock on the lever itself. (Incidentally the lever had a white stripe, surely one of very few distant levers to be so distinguished!) Multiple slotting means what it says: a distant might be not only slotted by the stop signal above it but also controlled by levers in two separate signalboxes. So Finchley Road's up fast inner distant was below West Hampstead's starter; there were then two outer distants, one beneath WH's home and the other (also controlled by WH as his inner distant) beneath Watling Street's starter. This arrangement provided braking distance from the linespeed of 75mph, with roughly 1/2 mile between each of these boxes. There were of course backslots to prevent a distant clearing while any signal between it and the stop signal it applied to remained at danger and by the time I knew it all the distants were motored and the slotting/backslotting was done electrically. Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:39 #13519 | |
|
Danny252
1461 posts |
Late Turn said:and that's in the current Rule BookI'd only had a quick skim, obviously I managed to skip that part. Should've had more tea! Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:40 #13520 | |
|
BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
The reason I put 2/4-5-5 was because whilst looking around the Sims, I found in the Incident Control Panel (F11) an option to tell a train to "Pass next signal irrespective of aspect..." which I took to mean in theory, if they wanted, the host could order a train to pass a section signal at danger without it having been accepted by the box in advance, in which case the signalman in rear would need to send 2-5-5. I realise however 4-5-5 is a bit unnecessary, unless the host instructed the train to pass a LOS board if that's possible?
Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:41 #13521 | |
|
Late Turn
699 posts |
Danny252 said:Seeing as Simsig doesn't simulate runaways, probably not so useful. In addition, trains that arrive at a box without an ILC/TES used to warrant obstruction danger, rather than 2/4-5-5 (though if running away, the relevant code is sent forwards) - though the current rulebook doesn't specify either way as far as I can tell. Anything approaching your home signal (at B, say) without ILC/TES/4-5-5/3-3-2 being sent/acknowledged (from A) as appropriate justifies sending 6 bells to A (not that it'd always be done in practice), and that's in the current Rule Book. You'd never send 4-5-5 or 2-5-5 to A in that situation, as that would refer to a non-existant runaway towards A. Of course, the most common explanation for a train arriving at your home signal without TES being received is that the chap at A has simply forgotten to send TES. The correct response to 6 bells from B, in that case, would be 4-5-5 (immediately and without calling attention!) as he's obviously unable to stop the train proceeding into the section. Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:42 #13522 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
Checking through I can only find one special code Dunblane: Class 1, 2 or 5 loco hauled trains (Down- towards Greenloaning) - Train entering section 2-2-2 I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:43 #13523 | |
|
Danny252
1461 posts |
BoxBoyKit said:2-5-5 = Train or vehicles proceeding without authority in the wrong directionSeeing as Simsig doesn't simulate runaways, probably not so useful. In addition, trains that arrive at a box without an ILC/TES used to warrant obstruction danger, rather than 2/4-5-5 (though if running away, the relevant code is sent forwards) - though the current rulebook doesn't specify either way as far as I can tell. Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:44 #13524 | |
postal
5264 posts 
|
BoxBoyKit said:Here is a list of "Is Line Clear.." Bell Codes from the current NR Rule Book, Module TS1:You can find the module on line here. The bell codes are in Section 2. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 09:45 #13525 | |
|
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
I may be able to find some box specific codes for you as well. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 11:51 #13527 | |
DriverCurran
688 posts |
Zoe said:In that case I expect 5-2 and 2-5 have different meanings to you then.5-2 Release Token. 2-5 Token Replaced. No use on double track absolute block signalling systems Paul Curran You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 12:44 #13529 | |
|
Late Turn
699 posts |
Indeed, 2-5 and 5-2 relate to wrong-direction movements on Absolute Block lines.
Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 14:29 #13533 | |
|
Albert
1315 posts |
Maybe this are useful codes for SimSig? ILC (Is Line Clear?) 4 Class 1 3-1 Class 2 1-3-1 Class 3 3-1-1 Class 4 3-2-5 Freightliner 2-1-1 Class 5 5 Class 6 4-1 Class 7 3-2 Class 8 2-3 Class 0 3-3-2 Shunt going forward into section 2-4 Shunt going backward, please don't send trains. 3-3 Backward shunt is going into section. OK? 3-4-2 Sandite train (may not be used but included for completeness) If the line is not yet clear, don't respond. If there's a failure, respond: 3-5-5 TCF in clearing point, let the train stop at red for a while 2-2-2 Examined TCF in section, SPAD 2-8 Home signal failed, SPAD 8-2 Distant signal failed, SPAD 3-3-5 TCF in clearing point fixed 4-3 TCF in section or signal failure fixed Train entering section: 2 Train leaving section: 2-1 Line clear again after shunt: 2-1 Cancelled train: 3-5 Cancelled shunt: 8 Wrong ILC code used: 5-3 AJP in games Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 14:33 #13534 | |
|
Danny252
1461 posts |
This thread seems to have been rearranged back to front...?
Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 14:41 #13535 | |
|
postal
5264 posts
|
Thanks, Albert. Useful for those who don't remember the original posting under the AB working on Cen Scotland topic which started off this conversation and the associated comments which followed: BoxBoyKit said: Because I have too much spare time... “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 15:56 #13536 | |
|
Zoe
252 posts |
Albert said:Line clear again after shunt: 2-1 You'd always send shunt withdrawn (8) after the shunt. If the block was normal before you started the shunt into forward section then the box in advance would simply return the block to normal. If the block was at train on line before the shunt into forward section started, if the clearing point was still obstructed then the box in advance would immeidately send blocking back inside home signal. If the line was clear up to an including the clearing point though, the box in advance would send either 2-1 or 2-1-2 depending on circumstances and then return the block to normal. Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 16:37 #13537 | |
|
Late Turn
699 posts |
Presumably 2-1 in that context refers to knocking out after blocking back outside or inside. Albert said: 2-4 Shunt going backward, please don't send trains Blocking back inside and outside respectively then. Quote: 3-5-5 TCF in clearing point, let the train stop at red for a while Reg 3.5 acceptance - which would be used (where authorised) with a train or other obstruction within the clearing point, not really a TCF though. You ought to send 6 bells for a TCF within the clearing point, but once the line has been examined, there's no reason not to accept trains normally. Quote: 2-2-2 Examined TCF in section, SPAD Not really! Quote: 2-8 Home signal failed, SPAD More importantly, advise Driver of the circumstances. The signal being passed at Danger would be the section signal in rear, as it wouldn't normally be possible to give a line clear with a defective home signal. Would only be used (in response to ILC) if no telephone communication was available. Quote: 8-2 Distant signal failed, SPAD Ditto. Quote: 3-3-5 TCF in clearing point fixed Line now clear to clearing point - so the train or other obstruction has been removed. Again, not really relevant to a TCF. Quote: 4-3 TCF in section or signal failure fixed A new one on me! Quote: Train entering section: 2 No real objections there - but why reinvent the wheel? Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 16:42 #13539 | |
|
Zoe
252 posts |
Late Turn said:Presumably 2-1 in that context refers to knocking out after blocking back outside or inside. Wouldn't that be 2-1-2? Log in to reply |
| Bell Codes 10/02/2011 at 16:44 #13540 | |
|
Late Turn
699 posts |
Aye, it would be now. 2-1 to us on the GC (and most heritage lines?) though.
Log in to reply |