Multiple train shunt out following the same shunt signal

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Multiple train shunt out following the same shunt signal 13/07/2024 at 01:36 #157822
KCRCRailway
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38 posts 		No save file available, but I do witness time when a train, say 2A01, suffered severe delay arrived at Birmingham, decouple as 5A02/04/06 at platform, then 5A02 shunt out via a shunt signal at platform only to discover the 2nd part (5A04) of the same train followed the same shunt signal and ends up stuck at station throat as the 1st part stopped at rev. signal outside station.

Was it a thing that can happen IRL and theres nothing I can do to prevent or it was just I failed to cancel the route in time?
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Multiple train shunt out following the same shunt signal 13/07/2024 at 16:44 #157833
GeoffM
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6380 posts 		Which timetable are you using, and do you recall which platform the train was in?

During the ~1990s and before, the loco that pulled the train into a terminus would often follow the train down the platform to the platform starting signal. With last wheel replacement on signals, and an engine on the track section before the signal, the interlocking would not be able to tell whether the train had completely passed the signal. I don't think running up to the platform starter is allowed anymore.

We do try to anticipate this in code but occasionally under the right conditions, a 2nd train will see a proceed aspect without a train between it and the signal.
SimSig Boss
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Multiple train shunt out following the same shunt signal 13/07/2024 at 21:10 #157842
bill_gensheet
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1432 posts 		You may be able to put in a timetable rule of the 'Must not depart from Z until X minutes after Y has X finished ...'

or perhaps a dwell time of a couple of minutes on the second part departure

Bill
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Multiple train shunt out following the same shunt signal 14/07/2024 at 20:00 #157849
AndyG
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1852 posts 		Similar issue with Waucott's Plymouth WTT with LE deps from up bay platform D2 with LWR.

bill_gensheet in post 157842 said:

You may be able to put in a timetable rule of the 'Must not depart from Z until X minutes after Y has X finished ...'
or perhaps a dwell time of a couple of minutes on the second part departure
Bill
The second train will probably still report ACoA as it will still 'sight' the aspect even though not ready to start. For the score chasers, probably easiest to pause the train (in F2) before the signal clears for the first departure.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
Last edited: 14/07/2024 at 20:01 by AndyG
Reason: grammar
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Multiple train shunt out following the same shunt signal 15/07/2024 at 08:24 #157853
kbarber
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1764 posts 		GeoffM in post 157833 said:
Which timetable are you using, and do you recall which platform the train was in?

During the ~1990s and before, the loco that pulled the train into a terminus would often follow the train down the platform to the platform starting signal. With last wheel replacement on signals, and an engine on the track section before the signal, the interlocking would not be able to tell whether the train had completely passed the signal. I don't think running up to the platform starter is allowed anymore.

We do try to anticipate this in code but occasionally under the right conditions, a 2nd train will see a proceed aspect without a train between it and the signal.
For the most part that was mandated under the instructions for Station Yard Working. (If I remember rightly they were in the General Appendix somewhere.) Incoming locos were permitted to 'closely follow' departing trains to the platform end, but specifically required to stop there until the signal had been returned to danger and cleared again for them. If they didn't closely follow the departing move, the driver was required to ask the signalman for permission before moving up the platform.

There were exceptions. The Sectional Appendix instructions for Manchester London Road (the OCS panel that preceded the present MP box) required all drivers of incoming locos to seek authority before moving, and close following wasn't permitted. There may well have been other locations with similar restrictions/modifications.
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Multiple train shunt out following the same shunt signal 15/07/2024 at 13:45 #157854
KCRCRailway
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38 posts 		GeoffM in post 157833 said:
Which timetable are you using, and do you recall which platform the train was in?

During the ~1990s and before, the loco that pulled the train into a terminus would often follow the train down the platform to the platform starting signal. With last wheel replacement on signals, and an engine on the track section before the signal, the interlocking would not be able to tell whether the train had completely passed the signal. I don't think running up to the platform starter is allowed anymore.

We do try to anticipate this in code but occasionally under the right conditions, a 2nd train will see a proceed aspect without a train between it and the signal.
One of the BR era TT I believe, lucky the station was so chaos that a loco swapping cab to run back isnt the biggest headache...

bill_gensheet in post 157842 said:
You may be able to put in a timetable rule of the 'Must not depart from Z until X minutes after Y has X finished ...'

or perhaps a dwell time of a couple of minutes on the second part departure

Bill
I messed up the shunting at P10/11/12 hence tons of train are late for 1-2hour, which probably broked the rule of dwell time (and my career if thats the job IRL :P)
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