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| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 26/10/2024 at 11:38 #158963 | |
Ignacio
17 posts |
Dear all, is there a program/tool available showing the movements of the train at the different station versus time, something like in the attached? Or is such a tool unusual in the UK (real) train world? Thanks, Ignacio  Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 28/10/2024 at 10:38 #158987 | |
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sunocske
121 posts |
Sorry for being off-topic, but I have to say I love those timetable diagrams. I am in a model railway club in Hungary, and we are organize or participate events similar to the FREMO module meetings but with TT gauge. We use timetable lists for the station dispatchers, but a diagram like this can be quite handy to see what is (or should) going on around your post. The other point is that it is independent of your language. We go quite often abroad eg. to Slovakia, Czechia, Poland, Germany and so on, and sometimes we have some language difficulties (however, English or German is becoming quite common now) when using the timetable list. But once you get familiar with those diagrams, you just need to note the train classes and colours paired to them, and there you go! And if you have a ruler or anything straight stuff (pencil, edge of paper etc.), you can expect how a delayed train would affect other traffic. However, I prefer the 90° counter-clockwise tilted diagram style. Don't ask why, but maybe because this is what style I've first met on the Budapest Children's Railway when I was a young boy  Here is a tutorial video about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYdjULYddGY
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| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 28/10/2024 at 12:10 #158992 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
That's what I know as a "timetable graph". It's not normally used in UK practice as far as I know, though I think the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway used something similar. I've seen them used a lot in Australia. I would expect it would be possible to write an Excel spreadsheet that produces such a graph. Or a script of some kind that turns the timetable XML data into a SVG graph. But I don't have the time to write one myself. Log in to reply |
| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 28/10/2024 at 13:27 #158993 | |
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sunocske
121 posts |
"I would expect it would be possible to write an Excel spreadsheet that produces such a graph." It is. I've seen a similar Excel spreadsheet at the Children's Railway, which turned WTT-like "input table" to a graph you can see on the video I've linked in my previous post. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Peter Bennet |
| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 28/10/2024 at 13:30 #158994 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts 
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They had something like that at Glasgow Central box to regulate the station platforms. I believe it may still be used when control moved to Cowlairs. Peter. I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 28/10/2024 at 15:21 #158995 | |
DonRiver
166 posts |
It's possible to do practically anything with Excel graphs. At uni I made a spreadsheet which would plot a cross-section of an arbitrary NACA 4-series aerofoil, at an arbitrary angle of attack, and plot lines tangent at defined intervals along the chord of the upper and lower surfaces of length proportional to pressure measured at that point in a wind tunnel, and then join the ends with a curved line that shows the pressure profile. (The exercise was to show what happens when a wing stalls and how a slat can prevent stalling... I never got round to printing the diagrams and submitting the coursework, unfortunately.) However in the year 2024, some sort of Python tool that takes a .WTT and a set of timing points and produces an SVG might be better? (named for the one in Tasmania, not in Russia) Log in to reply |
| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 28/10/2024 at 16:33 #158998 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
Peter Bennet in post 158994 said:They had something like that at Glasgow Central box to regulate the station platforms. I believe it may still be used when control moved to Cowlairs.The Docker. Brass rollers rolled a sheet under some perspex and they'd write on the perspex. We (at TRE) even quoted for an electronic replacement when they moved to SWSSC but nope, the brass rollers went into the new high tech signalling centre. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following users said thank you: flabberdacks, sunocske |
| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 28/10/2024 at 19:19 #159005 | |
Hap
1037 posts
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Peter Bennet in post 158994 said:They had something like that at Glasgow Central box to regulate the station platforms. I believe it may still be used when control moved to Cowlairs.You'd be correct. :) Craig How to report an issue: www.SimSig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:reportanissue Log in to reply |
| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 28/10/2024 at 21:33 #159007 | |
drew
71 posts |
clive in post 158992 said:In New South Wales that would be referred to as a “train control graph”. Not sure if we’re weird in having a person called a train controller who regulates traffic over an area encompassing multiple signal boxes or panels, but traditionally they used a very large graph like that to do it. It would have been particularly useful for regulation on large areas of single line with multiple unattended interlockings where the train crew worked themselves through. The crew needed permission from train controller to depart each location. The train controller would plot it all on the graph as they went to plan crosses and avoid log jams. They’re also good for timetable creation. I used one to solve problems on the Illawarra mountain in the timetables I produced for SimSig Moss Vale. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: flabberdacks |
| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 29/10/2024 at 09:36 #159012 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
drew in post 159007 said:clive in post 158992 said:Back when this dinosaur was a lad we had the Control (said with the stress on the first syllable) AKA 'the Brains'. The original idea came from the Midland Railway trying to resolve congestion and chaos around Toton, way back around the turn of the 19th/20th centuries I believe. Each control area had 4 controllers: Traffic, Motive Power, Traincrew and Train. There would be multiple desks in any control office, presided over by a Deputy Chief Controller. Traffic dealt with wagons, getting details of how many were needed in and out of every location on the patch. MP and Traincrew, of course were concerned with those resources - recording who/what was arriving, who/what needed PNB or maintenance and who/what was available for running trains. (There were diagrams for scheduled trains but they were rarely more than an aspiration in the glory days of freight working and always went awry when there were perturbations of any kind.) The one we would be interested in as signalmen was the Train controller, whose job was to make regulating decisions.In New South Wales that would be referred to as a “train control graph”. Not sure if we’re weird in having a person called a train controller who regulates traffic over an area encompassing multiple signal boxes or panels, but traditionally they used a very large graph like that to do it. On some lines, Control really did make all the decisions. Ex-LMS lines were particularly known for that (the MR became the dominant partner in the LMS after 1923). It also worked like that on the GE; I wonder if American influence had something to do with it, Henry Thornton having come from the States. On the GN and the GW, on the other hand, signalmen were normally responsible for their own regulating with Control available for advice and guidance, though they would give instructions on rare occasions. With the spread of powerboxes covering large areas, Train control became pretty much superfluous. Modern traction not needing the degree of maintenance that kettles did, MP control was less important; someone may be able to confirm my suspicion it morphed into Maintrol. And of course with most freight pretty strictly timetabled, instances of crews off their diagrams are much reduced (and dealt with, I suspect, by their owning companies rather than by a centralised co-ordinating authority of any kind). Log in to reply The following users said thank you: mldaureol, flabberdacks |
| "picture timetable" option for SimSig? 29/10/2024 at 10:23 #159013 | |
flabberdacks
636 posts |
Freight is meant to be strictly timetabled down under too but the nature of the beast (single line+crossing loops and/or huge distances through harsh country) means that they're all over the shop and signallers don't have enough information to regulate freight without a controller ensuring there's a refuge available 5 or 10 workstations away. One particular line is the main west heading out of Sydney up the blue mountains - once you come off the goods roads at Lidcombe (~16km west of Central) there are no refuges long enough until Lithgow (152km). You've got some four-track main line you can use for a little while but that's it. That route is controllers talking to controllers who each speak to their respective signallers, to make sure everything's on the right slot in between the suburban and intercity passenger jobs. Hope to have it all available on SimSig one day. Couple of gaps to fill yet. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: kbarber, mldaureol, drew |