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| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 09:57 #159415 | |
Anothersignalman
111 posts |
Flabberdacks suggested branching from my other thread to discuss the comparative etymology of various railway terms worldwide, e.g. the use of the term 'dock', and from my perspective, whether the Victorian Railways were the only place to use "double compound" in lieu of "double slip" (same for singles), and "delta" in lieu of "scissors" crossovers?
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| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 12:44 #159417 | |
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kbarber
1751 posts |
I have an idea the GWR used 'compound' for slip points. But then the GW was always a law unto themselves. Never come across 'delta'. South of the Border, dock was - as others have said - usually a siding (most often a short one) where loading/unloading would take place. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Anothersignalman |
| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 13:14 #159419 | |
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TUT
537 posts 
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kbarber in post 159417 said:I have an idea the GWR used 'compound' for slip points. But then the GW was always a law unto themselves. Never come across 'delta'.I think so as well. Remember, there are two ways of doing things. There's the Great Western way and the wrong way. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Anothersignalman |
| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 15:43 #159421 | |
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clive
2795 posts |
Anothersignalman in post 159415 said:whether the Victorian Railways were the only place to use "double compound" in lieu of "double slip" (same for singles), and "delta" in lieu of "scissors" crossovers?I've come across "compound points" meaning points interlaced with a diamond crossing; in other words, what's more normally known as "slips". With, of course, "single compound" and "double compound". From the context, I've got the impression that these were the formal names for the constructs, with "slip" being a colloquialism used by those down on the tracks. To me, "delta" indicates three lines meeting with three or six points so that trains from any direction can head out in either of the other two directions. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Anothersignalman |
| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 16:36 #159422 | |
flabberdacks
641 posts |
Even just comparing Sydney and Melbourne terminology is a head-spin. Possession / Occupation 4-car set / 4-car unit Set the route / Pull the route (Set for a train / Pull for a train) Block the points / Sleeve the points Etc etc could go on for ages. I think Melbourne's more 'lever frame' language is a cultural thing from having large lever frames running the whole network until late in the piece, going almost straight from big levers to the computers at Metrol in 83 with only a very short power signalling era in between, and a further long time taken to get rid of the rest of the levers from the suburban area. By 1983 in Sydney there were NX panels running the CBD, Strathfield area and Campbelltown, Broadmeadow was commissioned that year I think, but power signalling had been around for decades even then, with prettymuch everything from Auburn to Penrith getting power frames with rotary or toggle switches instead of levers in the late 50s. (This is an extreme generalisation just to outline my point). So it may have been that fewer and fewer Sydney signallers were 'pulling' or 'sleeving' anything which caused the lingo to change over the years. Use of the term 'dock' in Victoria to describe the act of bringing a train into service from a siding is something I've not heard nor read an equivalent of anywhere else. I like it. But I suspect the lack of a train description arrangement until, what was it, the 1970s? meant that the train that came to your platform to form the 0648 up was your "6:48 dock" and it just stayed that way down the generations. Even now, having had a train describer for 50 years, plenty of people insist on that terminology rather than trying to find '3504' on a timetable or graph. Also when it comes to running Flinders Street, the signallers, inner area train controllers and the fleet controllers all have the timetable represented to them in time order, so it's much easier to refer to a train as "the 7:51 Ringwood arrival" rather than its train describer number. Much quicker to find. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Anothersignalman |
| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 19:42 #159426 | |
GeoffM
6380 posts |
(From other thread) Ron_J in post 159409 said: flabberdacks in post 159402 said:The original IECC ARS referred to signalling a train into an occupied platform without joining as "double docking", though I guess it's quite possible a Scotsman was on the dev team. These days (or at least when I last worked on it) "platform sharing" was the preferred term.Anothersignalman in post 159396 said:Oddly enough in Scotland we refer to ‘docking’ when talking about platforming and we often call platforms ‘docks’. That doesn’t seem to be the case anywhere else in the UK.Shunt and redock procedure.Although everyone has understood what you meant, it's interesting to note (in my experience) that this is a specifically Victorian description of the move. There is no equivalent term for a 'dock' in Sydney, and I've not heard any of our British friends describe bringing a train from siding to platform in that way either. It may have come around as a consequence of Melbourne's failure to use any sort of train description system until quite late in the semaphore era. SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Anothersignalman |
| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 20:28 #159430 | |
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Anothersignalman
111 posts |
flabberdacks in post 159422 said:I think Melbourne's more 'lever frame' language is a cultural thing from having large lever frames running the whole network until late in the piece, going almost straight from big levers to the computers at Metrol in 83 with only a very short power signalling era in between, and a further long time taken to get rid of the rest of the levers from the suburban area.Not quite, we still have Frankston, Kooyong, Riversdale and Sandringham, for a net 142 levers (subtract gaps, spares, and the five on the end of Sandringham that were never installed), plus the ten levers still at Ouyen. Those are all tappet machines, our last cam and soldier machine was removed a few months ago from South Geelong (20) and is now in storage for future redeployment at Daylesford, joining probably 300 levers in preservation (public and private). Last edited: Yesterday at 20:30 by Anothersignalman Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 20:30 #159431 | |
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Anothersignalman
111 posts |
clive in post 159421 said:To me, "delta" indicates three lines meeting with three or six points so that trains from any direction can head out in either of the other two directions.My hypothesis is that the term derives from the small solid triangle of metal that you get on one side of a scissors crossover, forming two V-noses, when the diamond is offset rather than centred between the through lines. If that's true, then the term delta can only apply to such offset arrangements, and would not work for a centred-diamond arrangement. Last edited: Yesterday at 20:31 by Anothersignalman Reason: None given Log in to reply |
| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 21:14 #159435 | |
Splodge
721 posts |
Sheffield Platform 2C is referred to as the Dock (I think its route indication may be D as opposed to a number as well)
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| Etymology of railway terminology Yesterday at 21:34 #159436 | |
Steamer
3991 posts |
Splodge in post 159435 said:Sheffield Platform 2C is referred to as the Dock (I think its route indication may be D as opposed to a number as well)When Sheffield PSB first opened, the points to access it were released from a ground frame and access was only via S89 signal. So it certainly did spend some of its life as a dock, I don't know what it was pre-PSB. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |