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| Cancel lower whilst collared? 27/09/2011 at 20:26 #21371 | |
UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Should one be able to begin the process of lowering a level crossing by clicking on the lower button, collar the lower button then right-click on it whilst the raise button is still lit to be able to cancel the lowering? Stumbled across this the other day whilst mucking around with a simulation (forget which one) and just tested it on Brighton and am left wondering if it should be possible to do this?!! Replies appreciated, with thanks. Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Last edited: 27/09/2011 at 20:29 by UKTrainMan Log in to reply |
| Re: Cancel lower whilst collared? 25/12/2011 at 12:06 #26149 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Just noticed your thread when searching for what others have said about collars and level crossing buttons (not much). The Wiki mentions collars in relation to signals and points but doesn't say much about them in relation to level crossing buttons. First, I'm not sure I understand your post correctly. Quote: Should one be able to begin the process of lowering a level crossing by clicking on the lower button, collar the lower button then right-click on it whilst the raise button is still lit to be able to cancel the lowering?Did you really mean "Should one be able to cancel the process of lowering a level crossing..."? That would make more sense. What you appear to be saying is "Applying a collar should immobilize its target; therefore it's illogical that one should still be able to cancel lowering (i.e., raise) the barriers while there's a collar on the LWR button". I've been playing around with the Stoke Canon LC on the Exeter sim, and noticed the following: 1) With no collars on any buttons, if I wrongly click LWR (Lower) and wish to change my mind, all I have to do is click RSE (Raise); The LWR button stops flashing and goes hollow, the RSE button begins to flash, the barriers go back up and lowering has not been completed. 2) If I collar the LWR button while it is flashing and then click RSE, it behaves the same as in (1), i.e., collaring has no effect. This makes sense to me, since the purpose of collaring is to prevent an action from taking place, not to interrupt an action already happening. Thus, to prevent lowering or raising, one would need to collar the LWR or RSE buttons respectively. 3) Likewise, collaring the LWR does not stop the CLR button from working. However, collaring the CLR button means the crossing will not clear (i.e. its approach signal will not clear), even though the barriers are fully down (message displayed to that effect). 4) Interestingly, if Auto-Raise (AUT) is On (solid button) and collared, clicking it will still turn it off, which may be anomalous, though harmless. If Auto-Raise is Off when collared, clicking it can't turn it on. Of course these behaviours may well be different in other types of automatic LCs, of which there seem to be at least 58, according to Clive :) I wonder how useful it actually is to collar LC buttons. It seems the preferred approach is to collar the approach signal instead. Last edited: 25/12/2011 at 12:12 by maxand Reason: I know that you believe that you understand what you think I said but I am not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant. Log in to reply |
| Re: Cancel lower whilst collared? 25/12/2011 at 13:15 #26153 | |
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Late Turn
697 posts |
Max, Very quickly before we take the dogs out, don't confuse automatic crossings (which operate without any intervention from the Signalman, and are largely independent from signalling) such as AHBs with controlled crossings such as those referred to above - although they often have the ability to lower or raise barriers, the Signalman still retains responsibility for monitoring their operation (and the protecting signal can't be cleared until the Signalman has observed that the crossing has correctly operated and is not obstructed). I suspect Clive's reference to 58 automatic crossings actually refers to many implementations of one type (AHB) - or very few types at the most - set up in different situations. Tom Log in to reply The following users said thank you: maxand, Hooverman |
| Re: Cancel lower whilst collared? 25/12/2011 at 14:01 #26157 | |
Peter Bennet
5375 posts |
Collars are there simply to prevent you pressing/activating the relevant button. In NX boxes for example the collar is just a cap that you put over the button to stop it being pressed, lever boxes had some sort of contraption to prevent you pulling a collared lever etc. So pressing an uncollared button/lever/ whatever should still allow the action that button effects, subject to any interlocking. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: Cancel lower whilst collared? 25/12/2011 at 14:02 #26158 | |
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Late Turn
697 posts |
Just a further thought, still on my phone - it's useful to be able to collar the raise and auto-raise buttons during degraded working - for example when you're not able to set the route from the protecting signal so need to talk the Driver past. With no route set, there's nothing to hold the barriers down if the raise button was pressed, and you'd need to have auto-raise off (to prevent the barriers raising, for example, when a train signalled normally on another line clears the crossing); collaring both buttons prevents either being operated inadvertently.
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Re: Cancel lower whilst collared? 26/12/2011 at 09:34 #26184 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
Right clicking a button is the equivalent of pulling an NX panel button. A pulling action is always cancelling or taking away control therefore it should never hurt to pull any button. One particular style of button & collar combination only prevents pushing and will still allow a button to be pulled. FF Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |