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| Loose Working in AB 19/11/2012 at 11:47 #37707 | |
kbarber
1742 posts |
There were comments on giving line clear before a train was offered in the N Wales discussions. I concur that you can give LC with nothing offered. I've done it many times. And other bits of loose working too. When I knew the Midland Main Line (end of the 1970s) the loose working normally practiced involved not using Call Attention and answering only the Is Line Clear signal. So the official process was: Offer & Acceptance A calls attention (1 beat), B answers A sends Is Line Clear signal, B accepts by repetition and pegs line clear Train enters section A sends 2 beats, B answers by repetition and pegs Train on Line Train leaves section B sends call attention, A answers B sends Train out of section (2-1), A answers, B unpegs block to Normal. But doing it loose it went like this: A sends Is Line Clear signal, B answers by repetition and pegs line clear. Train enters section A sends 2, B pegs block to train on line Train leaves section B sends 2-1 and unpegs block to normal. (I hope that's reasonably clear.) Obviously it wasn't done this way when one had "company". The approach of an inspector was warned of by sending 2-2 (on Midland lines - on the North London it was 1-2-1 and I believe the Great Northern used 1-2-1-2). Unofficial visitors didn't count as company and used to learn the way it was really done, not the way it should be done (the signalman taking his ease the meanwhile). On the North London Line, this was further modified on a Sunday to effectively become 2-position block - as the train left the section, 2-1 was given, immediately followed by 3-1-2 and a fresh line clear. (Some people refer to it still as "Sunday Block".) At Acton Wells on the up line, this was further modified (taking advantage of the "fog switch" provided in connection with the Intermediate Block signal in rear, the track circuit controls that put the block from Acton Central to TOL and the counter-sequential locking in the frame) so that, when a train passed (we did wait until it had passed High Level Junction, Willesden), the home signal lever was returned almost (but not quite) to normal then pulled again (the arm returned fully to normal, which released the block) and the aforementioned 2-1, pause, 3-1-2 sequence was sent. In other words, we overrode absolutely every block control that existed and never moved 2 out of 3 signals from the clear position all day! On the down we did have to actually use the signal levers and work the block. Thinking about it now, it makes my hair curl to think what we used to get away with. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Josie |
| Loose Working in AB 19/11/2012 at 12:01 #37710 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
I was once told that 1-2 was the favoured "officialdom approaching" signal on the LNWR north of Crewe - plenty of variation on a theme with that signal, it seems. On the GWR around Cheltenham (I have a friend who spend many hours after his paper round popping into Thingley Junction), block working was mostly done over the omnibus - as everyone was almost permanently on there, chatting away! So A would ask B if he could accept such and such a train, and B would then peg up with no bells being sent at all. Similar to your trick at Acton Wells, there were apparently wooden blocks used to fit into the catch blocks at the back of the frame - so that when you put a lever back, the catch handle didn't drop and so the interlocking wasn't engaged, meaning you could just pull the signal again without fussing about with plungers and all that. Log in to reply |
| Loose Working in AB 19/11/2012 at 12:04 #37711 | |
jc92
3687 posts |
there certainly were places where, due to the block haveing additional protection (axle counters, track circuiting etc) i have been told the block was left at LC throughout peak periods without being pegged, thusly the occupation of the block automatically swung the needle to TOL (when he was free the signalman could peg TOL). later he could knock out and place it back to LC (cant remember where this was worked). aside from that, being able to accept a train without offering makes it so much easier to work the whole sim with AB on, as i found last night. it is after all, only an interpretation of the real thing. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Loose Working in AB 19/11/2012 at 13:13 #37716 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
On the Merseyrail lines many years ago (those boxes closed long ago so don't think I'll be getting anyone in trouble now) the unofficial bell codes were known as 'stickers', whereby you pressed and held the bell tapper down so that the bell hammer in the next box 'stuck' to the bell. 1 sticker = pick up the circuit phone, 2 = I've got company, 3 = I've got company, straighten your needle up (when working loose, or 'Mersey Block' as it was known by some).
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| Loose Working in AB 19/11/2012 at 17:01 #37735 | |
Andrew G
552 posts |
Anybody interested in the potential consequences of slack working might be interested in the following report, although the issue here was compounded by the lack of a full set of block controls in the boxes. Interestingly the local management were criticised heavily in the report for 'apparently' being unaware of the irregular block working commonly referred in the area as Mersey Block as well as other supervisory failings. http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=750 There has been some debate about this topic on the Signal-box forum in the past and quite a few ex professionals will tell you there is no need for slack working even in busy boxes and that it was a myth that you needed to work slack to keep things moving. I've seen various permutations and different ways of warning colleagues when officialdom is about. Heard an interesting story of a senior manager walking through the door of a junction box to find a reminder on one instrument (manager also next door) just as the warning signal (2-2-2) in this area rang out on another instrument! Log in to reply |
| Loose Working in AB 19/11/2012 at 17:44 #37740 | |
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Phil-jmw
675 posts |
I have a copy of the Hall Road accident report, it makes very interesting reading.
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| Loose Working in AB 20/11/2012 at 08:09 #37780 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
The only regular short-cut I took in my Absolute Bock days at Little Mill Jn was not calling attention to give TOS. Sometimes we'd signal by telephone, if you happened to be talking to the man in the next box, or if he told you that such-and-such a train was right behind the one in the section you'd peg up for it straight away when the first one was out of the section. The "Company" signal was usually given by telephone, but if you got caught unawares you gave a ring on the box-box phone without picking it up. The rule was that the man getting a Company notification would call the box on the other side,just to make sure that he knew as well. We didn't have any short-cuts with the levers (especially as I had a panel) that I was aware of. Log in to reply |
| Loose Working in AB 20/11/2012 at 10:07 #37783 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
Yes, I later heard that management around the North London were rather concerned after the Hall Road report came out. Inspection had taken a lower priority than keeping boxes open (before stage 1 of West Hampstead was commissioned, every signalling inspector was working a box on 12 hour shifts in an attempt to keep the line open - and even then a good number were permanently switched out). All concerned were aware that things were going on that shouldn't, but there just weren't the resources to do aught about it. Eighteen months on, with Midland boxes starting to close, there were beginning to be enough signalmen about to man all the boxes on the North London (even if they were still 12 hours for a while) and inspection got better. But in the end the Acton Wells issue was dealt with by replacing the frame (and Acton Central box) with a panel. Log in to reply |
| Loose Working in AB 20/11/2012 at 10:15 #37784 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
" said:
With certain frames there was a way of releasing the lock (no, I'm not telling...) There's a story from the Hertford Loop during the Kings X resignalling. At one box the frame was being removed and a panel commissioned (in due course Kings X took over what the panel worked and the panel itself went into the relay room for emergency operation). As the linemen lifted down the diagram an object fell out. The local Area Inspector was overseeing things; he walked over, inspected the object, then told the signalman: "You won't be needing this any more, you can't pick the locks on the panel." Real inspectors usually knew what was going on in their patch, whether or not they were ever allowed to see it... Log in to reply |
| Loose Working in AB 20/11/2012 at 12:27 #37785 | |
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pilotman
189 posts |
I have seen a "line clear release" obtained with a table knife! Quite right about what Inspectors knew. I was with a signalman who was unable to send "1-2 1-2" until the Inspector was actually opening the box door. He said "you could be in trouble for doing that". The signalman replied "yes I could, but my mates either side will not". Log in to reply |
| Loose Working in AB 20/11/2012 at 19:50 #37811 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
One that apparently occurred between Exeter West and City Basin Jcn (and probably elsewhere nearby) was the practise of "offering" a train on the box-to-box phone if a train was already in section - e.g. sending 4 on the box-to-box, and when the signalman in advance knocked out, he would immediately bell 4 and peg up. It's now somewhat more "officially" sanctioned in the preserved box, mostly providing an interesting conversation topic to pick up with those who know about signalling
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| Loose Working in AB 21/11/2012 at 13:37 #37907 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
" said:I have seen a "line clear release" obtained with a table knife! So it was a GN box... I'm just wondering which inspector it was ('cos my father was one and I later worked with one or two). Log in to reply |