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| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 15:26 #38016 | |
Jan
906 posts |
While playing around with the ground frames at Dalston, I've noticed that it is impossible to use them for running around a locomotive, which means that the oil trains cannot be simulated properly. The problems involved are: 1. F943's points cannot be moved if track circuit T425 is occupied, and likewise F944's points cannot be moved with track circuit T398 occupied 2. F943 and F944 cannot be released if track circuits T425, respectively T398 are occupied, not even after waiting for a potential time out period. Problem 1) is the one which actually prevents you from running around the loco of a Dalston - Carlisle oil train, while behaviour 2) might be prototypical, and would only give you a headache if you wanted to run around a locomotive north to south, or if you had erroneously normalised the ground frame too soon, in which case it would be impossible to release it again. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 15:29 #38017 | |
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mfloyd
189 posts 
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Jan, I'm fairly certain the train is propelled out on to the main line so ready to face Carlisle. The trains are also propelled into the yard so will always be at the main line end of the yard - so no need for runrounds Ripley, Derbyshire Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 15:40 #38018 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
" said:Jan,Fraid not. theres no run round facility at the oil sidings, there are two short sidings, but no RR facilities. trains propel into the sidings, and then draw out, propel into dalston station and run round for the trip back to kingmoor "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 23/11/2012 at 15:41 by jc92 Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 15:45 #38019 | |
postal
5264 posts |
Is the RR an un-signalled move then?
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 15:53 #38020 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
" said:Is the RR an un-signalled move then?pass. the signals protecting the ground frames are semi-auto so would protect the movement but there is no LOS to prevent the loco running bang road to currock I suppose. I dont see how it could be any other way though, given the lack of RR facilties at the Oil sidings, and the fact that two GFs were provided, even though only one would be required if no RR was needed. i am at work now, but when i get in i can check my quail to see if there ever was any RR loop at dalston sidings. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 16:58 #38023 | |
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lostnortherner
2 posts |
The train does run round on the running lines. It draws out, then propels back via the south G.F. into the down platform. The wagons are left in the down platform, while the loco runs round via the up platform and the north GF onto the north end of the wagons. Usually just as a passenger train is approaching..... There are indeed no LOS boards at Dalston. When they were replacing the S&C through there last year, the tanks ran top and tailed as they only had one GF in use at a time. Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 17:18 #38024 | |
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Jan
906 posts |
And this is the relevant quote from the local instructions, which got me started on the whole thing: Quote: A train departing from the oil depot which requires to proceed in the Carlisle direction is authorised to set-back along the Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 17:33 #38026 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
" said:And this is the relevant quote from the local instructions, which got me started on the whole thing:that would explain why no LOS would be required! "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 18:16 #38029 | |
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postal
5264 posts |
I've put it on the bug board for Tom to follow up.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 23/11/2012 at 22:52 #38036 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
Thanks for the feedback. It probably doesn't surprise you when I say I had never attempted a run round there. Having given it some thought, I think I've made the GF release conditions too simple. The problem is that I have to compensate for the fact there would be a shunter out on the ground making sure that trains are clear of points, which is not apparent just by looking at the track circuits. At the same time I also have to ensure that I don't allow the GF to be released too quickly if a movement is in progress. I'll also look into improving the indications to let you know when the GF is able to be released. Cheers Tom Log in to reply |
| Dalston ground frames 24/11/2012 at 16:10 #38057 | |
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Jan
906 posts |
" said:The problem is that I have to compensate for the fact there would be a shunter out on the ground making sure that trains are clear of points, which is not apparent just by looking at the track circuits.I'm just guessing here, but maybe internally splitting the track circuit up into two parts, one for the points, and the other one for the rest, and providing some sort of "Points clear" or "Points occupied" indication in the ground frame window might solve that problem. The indication on the main panel could stay as it is, and continue indicating the combined output of both track circuits. Two million people attempt to use Birmingham's magnificent rail network every year, with just over a million of them managing to get further than Smethwick. Log in to reply |