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| Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 13/01/2012 at 18:24 #27235 | |
BarryM
2158 posts |
Article courtesy of Railway Gazette International. http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/government-to-go-ahead-with-high-speed-2-plans.html BarryM Barry, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Log in to reply |
| Re: Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 13/01/2012 at 19:12 #27237 | |
ledgero2
93 posts |
old news....
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| Re: Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 13/01/2012 at 20:39 #27239 | |
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birchy74
151 posts |
Very old
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| Re: Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 14/01/2012 at 12:32 #27270 | |
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Rushey Platt
55 posts |
Ok here's a new angle to the debate. It's pretty clear to me that both sides are picking numbers to suit their own arguments, and this FT article confirms it: http://timharford.com/2012/01/the-unlikely-boons-of-longer-train-journeys/ In the article, Tim says: "you can mess around with a lot of numbers if you are making these calculations over a 60-year timescale. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to HS2 Ltd’s forecasts, or those of their opponents." He also explores an unusual aspect to the debate around the business case by answering the question: "Are you implying that users of High Speed Two should be having sex on the train?" :blush: Rob Log in to reply |
| Re: Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 07:49 #40907 | |
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Ben86
126 posts |
The route has been outlined for the second phase of the HS2 project. I can't help but feel that any benefit in journey time is going to be offset by the need to take connecting services into the cities (from Toton, Meadowhall etc.). If there were a time saving of 30 minutes from London to Nottingham, it's going to be inconvenient to then wait 10 minutes for a 10 minute connection into the city centre? I fear we may end up just further widening the commuter belt around London, and could invest more effectively by upgrading the existing network and infrastructure. Log in to reply |
| Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 12:11 #40917 | |
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DanC
53 posts |
Whilst I have no objections to HS2, or the HS project in general, I do sometimes wonder if the government use their heads. Personally I can see no reason for HS2 going via Derby and Nottingham AND them electrifying the midland mainline...Whilst both would have benefits in their own rights, doing both IMO would be a waste of money and would be pointless!
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| Re: Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 12:45 #40918 | |
postal
5265 posts |
" said:The route has been outlined for the second phase of the HS2 project.The trouble with upgrading the existing infrastructure to the level that would be needed if we are to cope with the sort of growth that both Virgin/Stagecoach and First Group thought they could generate on the WCML corridor is that you end up with another period of a number of years of disruption, bustitution, no rail at night killing the freight market and so on. For example, although the decision was mainly cost-driven, the WCML PUG and its ongoing night-time blockades was one of the contributory factors to the Royal Mail decision to come off rail in 2002. Again looking at the current WCML and extrapolating to the 2020's and 2030's, after any upgrade you will probably then have a network that is already full at the end of the upgrade. Certainly the impact of any improved links to/from London will be to widen the London commuter belt (in which case Nottingham/Derby Parkway will be a sensible option) but that will happen whether you have new build or upgrade the existing network. After all, don't forget that the "modernised" sections of the existing network have already done that with the ECML seeing commuters from as far away as York travelling into London on a daily basis. Also don't forget that although the HS2 pt.2 proposals finish at Leeds and Manchester, the trains will run on the existing network North of those points, improving the connectivity for the whole of the North of the UK with journey time reductions to Lancashire, the North East and the central belt of Scotland. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 28/01/2013 at 13:01 by postal Log in to reply |
| Re: Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 14:27 #40919 | |
58050
2659 posts |
Personally I think the whole thing is a complete waste of time & money. This country is no where near as big as France or Germany, so the benefits of all this is minimal. If they want to reduce journey times, then run trains with fewer stops along the route. Intermeadiate stations can be covered by existing services. There's only 1 benefit that I can see that would come from building this HS2 network & that is(fingers crossed) give the freight companies more pathing slots to run their freight trains over the existing network. By the time all the protestors have finished trying to block the construction of the line etc etc it will probably end up being a decade away until the 1st trains run with fare paying passengers. The money would be better spent electrifying the current network to all corners of England, Scotland & Wales.
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| Re: Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 15:32 #40920 | |
jc92
3689 posts |
" said:There's only 1 benefit that I can see that would come from building this HS2 network & that is(fingers crossed) give the freight companies more pathing slots to run their freight trains over the existing network.Unfortunately, whilst profit heavy, You'll find that better freight services doesnt win nearly as many votes as a better passenger service. dont forget government works on a basis of what is best for power, not for the country. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Re: Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 16:31 #40924 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
" said:If they want to reduce journey times, then run trains with fewer stops along the route. Intermeadiate stations can be covered by existing services.Pascal Where are the paths for these trains with fewer stops if you still have the existing services running (albeit with more stops)? Do we take out the few remaining freight paths in the daytime? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Re: Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 17:13 #40927 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
The freight paths in time will go. From what my mate tells me who works for Network Rail, they are not the least bit interested in running freight. The only thing that they are interested in is passenger traffic. You have plans in place now to remopve all freight traffic from the London area. Freightliners are now slowly being withdrawn from heading into London. The only freightliner trains that will xross London will be the ones orihinating from Tilbury & they will be only ones using the southern section of the WCML. All other freightliner trains will run north via Ely & March, then for a short distance will run on the ECML to Werrington where they will then run via Spalding. No freights heading south during daylight hours run via Weedon, they all get sent via Northampton. Whenever there's issues with railways on the news freight hardly ever gets a mention & thats where the money is. FOCs aren't subsidised like TOCs. Passengers trains running from Scotland to London could cover the journey quicker with less stops. You've got services running from Hull & Leeds that could stop at intermeadiate stations like Doncaster, Retford, Newark, Grantham & Peterborough & the longer hauled trains originating from Scotland & Newcastle could stop at Durham, Darlington & York, then fast to London & not necessarily stops at both Durham & Darlington. You can see by the very fact that they have chosen the first section is going to Birmingham that its planned to fail before it starts. It you want to make an impact why not build the line from London through to Scotland, in that start at both ends & join somewhere in the middle, like they did with the channel tunnel. For the country that created railways we are very good at destroying them & I don't mean by bombing the infastructure to pieces as Europe was in world war 2. The railways should be an intergrated part of the transport system of the country & not to be mis managed as it is & run purely for profit.
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| Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 18:22 #40929 | |
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simmybear
58 posts |
Apart from all the controversy of the route HOW can it take 20 years to build a new railway when the original Birmingham to Manchester railway started in 1833 took 4 years using spades, wheelbarrows and human muscle power - ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!! This country just cannot undertake big infrastructure projects any more without so much fannying about we still fall behind every other country by the time our trains run at 200 mph theirs will be at 300 mph. I remember watching the HST prototype on the South Wales line in Gloucestershire in the 70's feeling an immense pride in British ground breaking engineering regular 125 mph services a dream come true - where did we go wrong! In Belgium I remember seeing their TGV link to Brussels from Lille being built - they cut a swaithe 75 yards wide parallel to the existing track and devil take the hindmost if you were in the way - and Belgium is a crowded country - we are a laughing stock these days. Stephenson, Brunel, Churchward, Gresley. Stanier and even Robert Riddles must be merrily rotating in their graves Simmybear Log in to reply |
| Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 18:28 #40931 | |
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simmybear
58 posts |
Sorry its already been pointed out to me that it was only 82 miles built in 4 years to join the Warrington and Newton railway and then the Liverpool and Manchester at Newton Junction. BUT the point is still the same! Simmybear Log in to reply |
| Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 18:35 #40934 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
It could take more than 20 years to open. When you take into account of all the beaurocracy thats involved with building a new line plus all the other legal ramifications like the public being up in arms about where the line is actual going to go & the various court hearings to settle disputes etc etc. There's a big difference between the British publics view of a new line being built. In this country everyone moans about where a new line is going to go. In Europe its totally opposite whereby towns fight against one another because they want the line to go through there area.
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| Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 18:42 #40935 | |
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simmybear
58 posts |
That was my point really. If Railways were only invented today Britain wouldn't have any because NIMBY-ism takes over. Do you remember the people who'd bought houses that backed onto or were near the old Great Central mainline moaning at the thought it might be re-opened as a freight route? On the placement of the new HS2 stations I am reminded of that old joke about the passenger who asked why a station was so far from town as to be inconvenient "'Appens they wanted it by't railway" - some things never change. Simmybear Log in to reply |
| Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 21:52 #40945 | |
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computeringjl
29 posts |
maybe the ease of driving on the motorways and upgraded a-roads next to our houses means people are more reluctant of using trains, leading to nimbyism well, unless you are living in the wide open fields with no proper roads. there are also some/probably many out there who only care about peace and quiet, or at least no external disruptions to their lives. people talk too much about privacy and having rights in this country. life is too perfect the railways has also not been loved and enjoyed by the public since World War II. if it was seen as more popular than it is now, there wouldnt be as much nimbism, i think Last edited: 28/01/2013 at 21:57 by computeringjl Log in to reply |
| Government to go ahead with High Speed 2 plans 28/01/2013 at 23:24 #40946 | |
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Javelin395
272 posts |
NIMBY-ism isn't anything new. When the Midland Railway built their line to Manchester they were forced to drive their route through the more challenging terrain of Monsal Dale because the Duke of Devonshire refused to allow them access to his land. Main difference as I see it today is that it is not just the aristocrats that are able to object !! Log in to reply |