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| Landslip at Hatfield 19/02/2013 at 08:59 #41627 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
" said:" said:Woolley C.S. was permanently switched out, then brought back into use for one shift a day when northern requested extra paths for the leeds-notts. An IBS at Woolley was mooted before a ridiculous 7 figure quote put it out of the window completely. it also had a bay window fitted on "reopening" so the signaller can observe tail lamps without standing out side like they used to.That being said, I cannot think of any box that has been permanently switched out ever being used again. slightly off subject, a box was added temporarily at Arthington to allow single line working between rigton and horsforth via ETB working, being removed after engineering was completed. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 19/02/2013 at 11:08 #41628 | |
JohnMiller
321 posts |
 Published on Tuesday 19 February 2013 08:07 THIS is the latest aerial view of the moving spoil heap at Hatfield Colliery, which is engulfing the Doncaster to Thorne railway line. A spokesman for Network Rail said the tip had slowed down at the weekend but was still moving. Network Rail’s helicopter went up again at the weekend to assess how far the spoil heap has moved. Passengers have been warned there is no prospect of train services resuming for at least two months. It is too early to estimate the cost of the disruption and rebuilding the track bed once the movement stops, the spokesman added. Doncaster North MP Ed Miliband is also closely monitoring the situation. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 19/02/2013 at 13:53 #41629 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:Doncaster North MP Ed Miliband is also closely monitoring the situation.From his Mili-copter? Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 19/02/2013 at 17:16 #41631 | |
Steamer
3984 posts |
" said:" said:I remember going on a steam special over the S&C in about 2000 which, for various reasons, left late and got stuck behind a passenger service. It was dark by the time we got to Carlisle. The reason I heard was that there used to be a 20-odd mile block section, which suggests that Garsdale and possibly Kirkby Stephen were permenantly switched out.That being said, I cannot think of any box that has been permanently switched out ever being used again. These days Kirkby Thore is the only box equipped to switch out, although according to the timetable planning rules this only happens 0600 Sunday- 0600 Morning. I assume the reason that only this box can switch out is because most of the other boxes now control IBS signals? JC92 said: An IBS at Woolley was mooted before a ridiculous 7 figure quote put it out of the window completely. it also had a bay window fitted on "reopening" so the signaller can observe tail lamps without standing out side like they used to.How can it cost that much? I don't have any real-world signalling experience, but I didn't think IBS signals were that complicated. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 19/02/2013 at 17:17 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 19/02/2013 at 17:35 #41632 | |
clive
2789 posts |
" said:I believe that the current "rough costings" for signalling work are half a million quid per "signalling unit", which is basically a signal, a set of points, or a track circuit. Remember that installing an IBS isn't just a matter of sticking up a couple of light bulbs on sticks. You need to install track circuits from the controlling box to 400m beyond the IBS home. You need two new signals on each track. You need to change the interlocking and then set up a possession to test it. All of this costs money. I don't know if half a million per unit is a reasonable number, but I can see why it might be. Last edited: 19/02/2013 at 17:35 by clive Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| Landslip at Hatfield 19/02/2013 at 17:46 #41633 | |
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Late Turn
699 posts |
" said:These days Kirkby Thore is the only box equipped to switch out, although according to the timetable planning rules this only happens 0600 Sunday- 0600 Morning. I assume the reason that only this box can switch out is because most of the other boxes now control IBS signals? I don't know whether the facility to switch out was removed when the IBs went in, or whether it's still there but not used, but there shouldn't be a problem with a box switching out just because it has an IB. Melton Station box (Melton Mowbray) is one example, with an IB at Wyfordby on the Up. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| Landslip at Hatfield 19/02/2013 at 17:48 #41634 | |
postal
5264 posts |
Half a million probably is a reasonable number. In the early 1990s when Royal Mail were building the new sorting office at Werrington and moving out of the Bourges Boulevard site beside Peterborough Station the possibility of putting in a dedicated Rail Terminal on the site (like the Low Fell terminal) was investigated. This would have involved a number of crossovers or bi-di signalling to get access from both directions. It couldn't be costed in because of the rail infrastructure costs. Looking at the costs for Werrington (and the other schemes that did go in at Shieldmuir, Doncaster, Warrington and Bristol) a good rule of thumb in those days was that each turnout or crossover and associated signalling changes would cost £1 million.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 19/02/2013 at 17:49 by postal Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Steamer |
| Landslip at Hatfield 19/02/2013 at 21:30 #41636 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
" said:" said:IBs arent an issue with switching out, Grindleford Switches out overnight, and that has an IB at Bamford. Low houses has a level crossing, so must remain switched in, Howe and Co fringes to carlisle, so cannot switch out. Culgaith controls a crossing, so cannot close, Blea moor controls the single line over ribblehead so cannot switch out. that only leaves appleby, kirkby stephen and garsdale (and kirkby thore). where did the info come from that only kirkby thore can switch out? there may well be a difference between having the hardware, and NR wanting paths and stipulating a box may not close, in order to provide them?These days Kirkby Thore is the only box equipped to switch out, although according to the timetable planning rules this only happens 0600 Sunday- 0600 Morning. I assume the reason that only this box can switch out is because most of the other boxes now control IBS signals? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 19/02/2013 at 21:54 #41638 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts |
" said:" said:The Rules of the Route on NR's website. I had a quick look, and it shows other boxes as able to be switched out, but marked as open continuously. When I went over the S&C last August on a Sunday, I noticed that Appleby, Kirkby Stephen and Garsdale boxes were staffed (didn't get a look at Kirkby Thore). It seems strange that all these boxes would be open on a Sunday, with little freight and only a handful of passenger trains, if they could be switched out." said:IBs arent an issue with switching out, Grindleford Switches out overnight, and that has an IB at Bamford. Low houses has a level crossing, so must remain switched in, Howe and Co fringes to carlisle, so cannot switch out. Culgaith controls a crossing, so cannot close, Blea moor controls the single line over ribblehead so cannot switch out. that only leaves appleby, kirkby stephen and garsdale (and kirkby thore). where did the info come from that only kirkby thore can switch out? there may well be a difference between having the hardware, and NR wanting paths and stipulating a box may not close, in order to provide them?These days Kirkby Thore is the only box equipped to switch out, although according to the timetable planning rules this only happens 0600 Sunday- 0600 Morning. I assume the reason that only this box can switch out is because most of the other boxes now control IBS signals? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 19/02/2013 at 22:00 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 21/02/2013 at 14:40 #41672 | |
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guidomcc
246 posts |
[img size=500]http://www.networkrail.co.uk/assets/0/72/4294967297/30064771362/30064773484/30064773906/30064773921/4af955e1-e306-466d-a520-035622d059f6.png[/img] photo: Network Rail To paraphrase NR: Quote: Conditions have deteriorated since a rough ride was reported by a driver on Saturday. Understatement of the century? 
Last edited: 21/02/2013 at 14:41 by guidomcc Reason: credit Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 25/02/2013 at 11:28 #41780 | |
Chrisrail
384 posts |
Timetable has been started with the trains and stock that actually ran on 19th Feb including VSTP workings. C :cheer: Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 01/03/2013 at 17:48 #41934 | |
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Steamer
3984 posts |
According to this article, repair work has started, but will take 16-18 weeks.
"Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 02/03/2013 at 00:59 #41963 | |
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Signalhunter
177 posts |
Certainly there is plant and some preparatory work(?) visible from the M18, near the Thorne junction. There appears to be a number of track panels awaiting using.
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| Landslip at Hatfield 14/03/2013 at 10:15 #42322 | |
onlydjw
456 posts |
Firstly my apologies for taking a long time to reply to a couple of queries made earlier in this topic. I've been very busy, and an e-mail last night prompted me to actually reply to this whilst I have a moment. Capacity of the diversionary routes - the Lincoln line is basically 3 per hour for loaded freight - possibly up to 3 and a half for empty ones. Then you have to fit the passenger service in (only one every 2-3 hours), but it still has to be fitted in. The Brigg route is constrained by the single line sections - my contact who lives in Gainsborough next to Gainsborough Central No. 4 Signal tells me he's getting 3-4 per hour most of the time. The plan is written to prioritise loaded trains via Brigg (except those which are running via Newark), and except 6V66 which was found to have been losing time runnign via Brigg due to the gradient between Brigg and Kirton (this now runs via Lincoln, which has less gradients). The rest of the workings are fitted into flights via Brigg, and the excess (basically) via Lincoln. Lincoln is also seeing some of the "one off" workings which don't fit into the regular plan - things like some binliner paths, the Stalybridge tanks etc. Aside from a few issues with driver route knowledge, and some diversions of Lincoln traffic via Brigg due to late running, the plan seems to work, aside from there are regularly queues of trains at barnetby and Gainsborough waiting to be flighted via Brigg. Usually these are done 3 at a time, as any more start tailing back and getting in the way of other traffic! TPX even have a path for swapping their 185's - 5T90 & 5T99. These have only run on Saturdays so far, and one unit is swapped, leaving a second to run the hourly Cleethorpes-Scunthorpe shuttle service. The Northern 153 at Cleethorpes is swapped on the Saturday passenger service via Brigg, as indeed it always was. Siemens are fuelling the unit at Cleethorpes, which did not normally happen. I believe TPX had their application to divert services via Brigg rejected on the basis that all the paths were required for freight. Timetables - I was asked quite some time ago to sort out the timetable for the scenario for Appleby and Elsham being closed. I believe we adjusted this to be based around the Keadby closure a few years ago, and indeed I have some information stored somewhere to put this together one day! However, with the advent of publically available information, and the ongoing closure of (effectively) Thorne Jn, now seems like the time to put something together. I acknowledge Chris Law's start, and I am happy to advise on any rules etc if required. I also advise that on the date chosen, the plan was still rather ad-hoc compared with the last couple of weeks, as things have settled down, and certain things which didn't work have been sorted and ammended. In the first couple of weeks, the steel traffic levels tended to be a little lower too. I intend to start grabbing some schedules as and when I get time, to start putting together another hybrid type timetable. This one won't feature the same level of coal service options - simply because I still can't understand how the rules work to actually get them to do what I wanted them to, so I shall simplify! I intend this TT to come with the new version of South Humberside, as and when that is ready, simply becasue a number of locations required for it to work have been added to the sim since it's original release. The one major limitation of Simsig is that a train booked to run via Lincoln can't be diverted via Brigg without manually changing it's TT! As far as I know, there's nothing we can do about this! If anyone feels they can add anything to either the TT project(s), or anything else, then please feel free to reply, or send me an e-mail to onlydjw@yahoo.co.uk (please don't PM me as I get no notifications of PM's still, and the icon to tell me I have messages is still far too small - I've just read a PM from 3 months ago which I did not know was there!) Note - copy posted in the South Humbs TT area. God bless, Daniel Wilson Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 14/03/2013 at 12:51 #42324 | |
58050
2659 posts |
Makes a change where Network Rail actually refuse paths from passenger TOCs in favour of freight traffic. Something I'd like to see happen more regularly.
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| Landslip at Hatfield 15/03/2013 at 17:53 #42353 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts 
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Not re-opening until July at least:- BBC News item I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Last edited: 15/03/2013 at 18:27 by AndyG Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 15/03/2013 at 18:11 #42355 | |
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mfloyd
189 posts |
Whats Eric Joyce got to do with it?!
Ripley, Derbyshire Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 15/03/2013 at 18:28 #42356 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts
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copy/paste sticky fingers, fixed, thanks
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 16/03/2013 at 23:44 #42383 | |
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onlydjw
456 posts |
As above - date now being given as mid-July - if it goes any longer, then there may be serious affects as Stainforth is the diversionary for both Nottingham and Selby closures in the summer! Also, the "excess coal" is to start being loaded by rail "immenently" in top & tailed trains of no more than 386m length. And finally, the Brigg line is closed until further notice (as of around 1500 this afternoon) due to a 10 foot vrack being discovered at Wrawby Junction on the single to double track points. 142016 was stranded at Cleethorpes, and was attached to 153384 & 153326 on 2T56 1600 Grimsby Town-Newark Northgate as far as Lincoln, where it was detached and ran ECS to Sheffield as 5H16. Lincoln is now the only freight route open, and with limited capacity of 3-3.5 trains per hour, won't cope! Over 20 freight on the afternoon shift (1400-2200) alone via Lincoln today, and this morning was busy without the Brigg traffic! God bless, Daniel Wilson Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 17/03/2013 at 19:46 #42400 | |
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onlydjw
456 posts |
Below is my sightings log from yesterday at Lincoln, and the story of what happened at Wrawby from putting the pieces from various posts and PM's together. UF 0821 66116 6E46 Kingsbury-Lindsey OR 30 TEA DS 0858 66168 6M57 Lindsey OR-Kingsbury 29 TEA (at least I counted 29 whist filming it) DF 0933 66068 6Z38 Immingham HIT-Ratcliffe 21 HTA US 0933 66011 6G80 Doncaster Belmont-Immingham CPL 30 MEA UF 0945 66524 4R12 Barrow Hill US1-Immingham HIT 20 HHA DS 1004 66551 6R08 Immingham HIT-West Burton 19 HHA UF 1018 66744 4R78 West Burton-Immingham Mineral Quay 11 IIA & 10 HYA UF 1116 66952 4R14 Doncaster Down Decoy-Immingham HIT 19 HHA UF 1133 66547 4R35 Drax-Immingham NCB1 19 HHA DF 1243 60091 6V66 Scunthorpe Entrance C-Margam 25 BBA/BDA/BEA (or similar) UF 1339 66704 6D60 Eggborough-Immingham Mineral Quay 27 JNA UF 1408 60019 6E54 Kingsbury-Humber OR 30 TEA US 1458 60017 6E82 Rectory Junction-Lindsey OR 24 TEA UF (Down Line) 1506 66068 4Z33 Ratcliffe-Immingham LL7 21 HTA DS 1523 66011 6M88 Immingham CPL-Ketton Ward Sidings 30 MEA DF 1531 66015, 66116 & 66147 0D04 Immingham TMD-Doncaster TMD Light Locos DF (Up Line) 1558 66952 6R14 Immingham HIT-Hunslet Yard 19 HHA UF 1613 66741 4R71 Eggborough-Immingham Mineral Quay 10 HYA & 14 IIA UF 1628 66554 4R37 Barrow Hill US1-Immingham HIT 20 HHA DS 1635 66019 6O73 Scunthorpe Redbourne Sidings-Dollands Moor 13 FIA DS (Up Line) 1728 66557 6R16 Immingham HIT-Ratcliffe 20 HXA DF 1736 66524 6R12 Immingham HIT-Ratcliffe (see note below) 20 HHA DF (Up Line) 1756 66547 6R35 Immingham NCB1-Hunslet Yard 19 HHA UF 1813 66090 4E32 Dollands Moor-Scunthorpe Redbourne Sidings 13 FIA DF 1817 66713 6Y24 Immingham CPL-Doncaster Down Decoy 8 IIA & 16 HYA Unfortunately, I was required at a family event, so was unable to stay for the remaining 6 diversions (as reported by Richard at Holton le Moor) and 6 engineering trains. 4R16 Doncaster Down Decoy-Immingham HIT (66557) and 4R18 Ferrybridge-Immingham CPL (66713) were both diverted via Brigg (vice Lincoln) due to late running. To give a fuller story on the Brigg Line issues, putting together the posts and PMs, the trail of events goes something like this: The driver of 4R18 reported seeing a 10 foot long piece of switch rail from WJ106 points (the single to double line point on the Brigg Line at Wrawby Junction). Naturally, traffic was stopped. 6R12 was stood at signal WJ115 (the Down Brigg Line Starter), and had to await a draw back loco (which was the loco from 6R35) to drag it back to Wrawby Junction, for it to continue via Lincoln (eventually, nearly 5 hours late). The train, destined for Ratcliffe, was PINED at Doncaster Down Decoy. 4R17 Cottam-Immingham HIT, which was following 4R18 ran round at Brigg, and returned to Worksop Yard. Also stranded at Cleethorpes was 142016 which had arrived on 2H05 Sheffield-Cleethorpes. It ran to Grimsby, was attached to 153384 & 153326 on 2T56 Grimsby Town-Newark Northgate as far as Lincoln, detached and formed 5G16 Lincoln-Sheffield ECS. This is the first pacer on an EMT service train, and the first pacer on a service train between Barnetby and Lincoln (unless anyone knows any different)! We know that pacers have run between Lincoln and Barnetby before (since Northen as well Richard), but only ECS as far as we know. To complete the log, 5B81/1B81 Neville Hill T&RSMD-Lincoln-London Kings Cross was formed of 43274 & 43305. Looking at Real Time Trains, freight has been running via Brigg today, so the points at Wrawby look to have been repaired. I can’t remember a busier Saturday for freight in Lincoln. With the engineers and early morning bits added, that would make around 45 freights in one day. Roll on the next farce… God bless, Daniel Wilson Log in to reply The following users said thank you: guidomcc, BarryM |
| Landslip at Hatfield 17/03/2013 at 20:02 #42401 | |
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ozzyd9001
131 posts |
i saw a ffh coal train today at just gone 1100 ish heading over the stamp end area of Lincoln, heading towards barnetby so they must have opened the route early. as i dont think it opens till 12.00 on a sundy
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| Landslip at Hatfield 17/03/2013 at 20:40 #42405 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:6R12 was stood at signal WJ115 (the Down Brigg Line Starter), and had to await a draw back loco (which was the loco from 6R35) to drag it back to Wrawby JunctionShunter and radios too much to ask? Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 17/03/2013 at 21:54 #42409 | |
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onlydjw
456 posts |
The Barnetby-Lincoln route doesn't normally open until 1800 on a Sunday, but is currently 24/7, along with Lincoln-Gainsborough-Doncaster which normally closes 2200-0600 Sunday into Monday. As regards shunter and radios - what shunter with what radios? God bless, Daniel Wilson Last edited: 17/03/2013 at 21:55 by onlydjw Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 17/03/2013 at 22:17 #42413 | |
Splodge
716 posts |
Ouch, I'd imagine Cleethorpes' tourist trade will not be impressed with a July reopening!
There's the right way, the wrong way and the railway. Log in to reply |
| Landslip at Hatfield 17/03/2013 at 22:33 #42414 | |
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ozzyd9001
131 posts |
why they don't divert the trans pennines through lincoln is beyond me. surely a longer run is better than non at all?? and they don't have to stop there either Log in to reply |