Which route to take?

But yet Virgin trains are quite willing to sell me a ticket with reservations that route

" said:

But yet Virgin trains are quite willing to sell me a ticket with reservations that route

That makes it an 'accepted route' rather than a 'permitted route'.

Just because it's in one group doesn't mean it's in the other.

It seems to me that, whatever the various books and websites say, once a ticket has been sold a contract exists. If, as an integral part of the transaction in which the ticket was sold, 'via' points were used and even more so if reservations were purchased, then the route must by definition be valid for that particular ticket holder - the company (or one of its several agents, for that's what the other companies & websites who sell its tickets have become) have made a contract to provide a specified product (the journey) for a specified price and cannot without some lawful excuse alter the terms of that contract. Whether it's 'permitted', 'accepted' or any other word is, so far as I can see, completely irrelevant once a ticket comes into existence that specifies that route.

I had something like that many years ago in the days of Blue and White savers: I forget which meant what.

Peter

" said:

" said:

But yet Virgin trains are quite willing to sell me a ticket with reservations that route

That makes it an 'accepted route' rather than a 'permitted route'.

Just because it's in one group doesn't mean it's in the other.

It seems to me that, whatever the various books and websites say, once a ticket has been sold a contract exists. If, as an integral part of the transaction in which the ticket was sold, 'via' points were used and even more so if reservations were purchased, then the route must by definition be valid for that particular ticket holder - the company (or one of its several agents, for that's what the other companies & websites who sell its tickets have become) have made a contract to provide a specified product (the journey) for a specified price and cannot without some lawful excuse alter the terms of that contract. Whether it's 'permitted', 'accepted' or any other word is, so far as I can see, completely irrelevant once a ticket comes into existence that specifies that route.

That's my thoughts anyway. Obviously if there's no reservations involved, no route specified on the ticket and no evidence of a route being specified at the time of booking the company might feel entitled to reject what appears to be an attempt to break the rules (and to apply whatever penalties the law permits). If such evidence does exist (and the specifics of the route weren't rejected during the booking process) I think they would be hard put to enforce such penalties at law.

But that's just legal logic. Whether such a thing (or any other form of logic for that matter) remains relevant in the railway industry of today is a moot point...

Well I should have fun on the train to Bletchley tomorrow. I punched Bedford St Johns to Euston via Bletchley into the web search engine and it gave me the times and changes and confirmed fare and break of journey allowed - so that was good.

However, have just picked up my tickets from the machine which say "Bedford Stations to London Thameslink".

So I'll take a print but I suspect I'll be disappointed.

Peter

That's right, the only tickets to "London Terminals" (1072) are Travelcards.

" said:

Well I should have fun on the train to Bletchley tomorrow. I punched Bedford St Johns to Euston via Bletchley into the web search engine and it gave me the times and changes and confirmed fare and break of journey allowed - so that was good.

However, have just picked up my tickets from the machine which say "Bedford Stations to London Thameslink".

So I'll take a print but I suspect I'll be disappointed.

Peter

Does the route have "+Any Permitted if so then its via Bletchley and will give you underground transfer to City Thameslink, Blackfriars and London Bridge.

Does the route have "+Any Permitted if so then its via Bletchley and will give you underground transfer to City Thameslink, Blackfriars and London Bridge.

" said:

That's right, the only tickets to "London Terminals" (1072) are Travelcards.

No "London Terminals" and "Travelcards" are completely different things.

" said:

" said:

That's right, the only tickets to "London Terminals" (1072) are Travelcards.

No "London Terminals" and "Travelcards" are completely different things.

Yes, but if you want a non-travelcard, it will be issued to "London Thameslink"

I think its a mess up on the WEBTIS system.

Although the route from Bedford to London is valid on both EMT, FCC and LM, London Thameslink is purely to get you though to London Bridge and Elephant & Castle via the Thameslink route, where London Terminals would only get you to either London Euston or St Pancras.

Best to call into the ticket office at Bedford St Johns, or if its unstaffed visit the Midland station if you have time, or take your email confirmation and show to the conductors.

Being Southern based, London Terminals from the Sussex Coast lets you travel to London's Victoria, Waterloo, Vauxhall, Charing Cross, Blackfriars, City Thameslink, Cannon Street and London Bridge via any reasonable route. Farringdon and beyond are to the specific station.

Sacro, Travelcards are under code 0035 for London Zones 1-6 (0032 for Zones 1-2 & 0034 for Zones 1-4), Or 0786 if you just want the one tube journey each way on certain tickets.

'Reasonable' can be down to the opinion of who you ask. There are some routes that are permitted but not reasonable

Conductors are trained on the routing guides for the routes and areas they sign.

The routing guide is very complex, I had a one day course on it. And there are alot of pages in the easements section. Most of which are about allowing to pass a station twice.

Going back a few threads back regarding Bedford Stations to London Thameslink, having looked at work earlier today, its not valid on the Euston route, although taking the confirmation along with you and showing the conductor or ticket office staff, they can excess the ticket to a London Terminals fare.