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| Signal "timing out" 14/10/2013 at 21:18 #49992 | |
John
884 posts |
I've seen several incidents in the control log where a driver has observed a change of aspect which was then attributed to the signal "timing out". Are signals designed to revert to danger after a specific time? Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 14/10/2013 at 22:04 #49994 | |
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kieron.young2k13
10 posts |
That sounds dangerous as well as safe if that makes sence
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| Signal "timing out" 14/10/2013 at 22:12 #49995 | |
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Aurora
183 posts |
Sounds a bit sus. I can understand it but at the end of the day, the example you've provided is why it shouldn't be used on a regular railway.
Nil. Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 14/10/2013 at 22:18 #49996 | |
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Lardybiker
771 posts |
The only timeouts SimSig has are when the signaler reverts a signal to Danger and there is typically either a 30 second or a two minute timeout (depending on the type of signal) before the previously selected route from it drops. I am not aware of anything else timeout in SimSig that would cause a signal to revert back to red.
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| Signal "timing out" 14/10/2013 at 22:21 #49997 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
I can think of two instances of that being used here in CZ. 1. Something akin to Call-On signal will revert back to danger (after 3 mins AFAIK) unless its time is extended by the signalman. 2. Special signals covering automatic level crossings will revert to danger after some time too, as there is some maximum period after which the crossing warners will stop blinking. For a similar reason, the driver mustn't act on their aspect had he stopped between the signal and the crossing and must treat the crossing as open. (note that LCs don't typically work as described here) Last edited: 14/10/2013 at 22:24 by Finger Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 14/10/2013 at 22:52 #50000 | |
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vontrapp
210 posts |
UK Signals, which display a proceed aspect, can only be put/placed/switched/keyed (whatever) back to danger in certain circumstances (or error); there is no need for signals to time out and revert to danger, on their own.* The only time I suppose, when a signal times out, is when the filament/paraffin dies. *How could this be implemented on semaphore signalling, anyway? Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 14/10/2013 at 22:53 #50001 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
Motorize it, and put a timing circuit in ?
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 14/10/2013 at 23:08 #50003 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
" said:The only time I suppose, when a signal times out, is when the filament/paraffin dies.If the Lamp has failed, how is replacing the arm to danger going to resolve the situation - the signal still has no Illuminated aspect? However if you mean replacing a signal in rear to danger, i dont see it to be an issue. if the signal in rear has been cleared, along with the signal in question, then the train must be clear to pass into the advance section, so the lamp failure won't cause a safety critical issue. In relation to the OP could it be a situation where the signal has been put back on the driver (thus timing out) without the driver being preadvised? "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 15/10/2013 at 11:34 #50020 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2078 posts |
I would have thought it is more likely that the person writing the log either does not understand what he is writing, or more likely has not written enough information for anyone else to realise what is going on. If a signal is replaced to danger whilst subject to approach locking, it is true it will "time out", BUT that will not prevent the signaller clearing that signal for the same route again straight away. The approach locking will "hold" the route for a specified length of time, preventing any points in that route from being moved, or any opposing or conflicting routes from being called. It will not prevent the same route being called again, and if it was then the signal should clear straight away. One possible explanation John is that the signaller may have wrong routed at the next signal with points in its overlap, and having to replace two signals to reset the route for the correct one. Even with an intermittent failure of a set of points or a track circuit, the route would have to be restroked, but would not need to complete the timeout before the signal could clear again, assuming of course the fault condition is not there at the time. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: John |
| Signal "timing out" 15/10/2013 at 12:59 #50023 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
As Steve has said, "timing out" is a colloquial term used to state that the Approach Locking Timer is running. This would only normally occur when a signaller cancels the route, however there are certain failure conditions which could cause the route to cancel and thus invoke the approach locking timer. I would imagine the comments on the log are as a result of the signaller deliberately cancelling the route and then awaiting the time out. This will either be because the train was "Wrong Routed" or because the train had a fault / problem and the signaller asked the drivers permission to replace the signal so that other trains could be routed around the problem train. If things like points or track circuits fail intermittently they do not cause the route to cancel and thus would not start the approach locking timer. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: John |
| Signal "timing out" 16/10/2013 at 10:32 #50059 | |
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kbarber
1742 posts |
" said:<snip> In the early Westronic systems (as fitted at Hackney Downs to work Clapton Junction), once a route was 'pulled up' the approach locking timer would have to be allowed to run the full two minutes regardless. It wasn't possible to call the cancelled route again. (I got caught out by that once or twice while 'visiting'; a surprising number of the signals between Clapton & Hackney were on the Westronic.) I strongly suspect that feature was designed out of subsequent installations and I rather doubt that there's anywhere left on the network where it might still happen, but you never know... Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 16/10/2013 at 15:47 #50070 | |
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vontrapp
210 posts |
I meant when the juice runs out, the light goes out. I remember my lamp-man adjusting the wicks so the lamp would time-out rather earlier than they should have! Tongue-in-cheek Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 20/10/2013 at 15:06 #50184 | |
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Forest Pines
525 posts |
" said:UK Signals, which display a proceed aspect, can only be put/placed/switched/keyed (whatever) back to danger in certain circumstances (or error); there is no need for signals to time out and revert to danger, on their own.* The only time I suppose, when a signal times out, is when the filament/paraffin dies.There have been a few British signalling installations with semaphore signals that automatically revert to danger when a train passes. The first that springs to mind is the Hall automatic semaphores that were installed on the York-Northallerton stretch of the ECML before quadrupling. Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 20/10/2013 at 19:51 #50193 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
" said:" said:Woking- basingstoke springs to mind aswell (automatic 3 aspect semaphore signalling)UK Signals, which display a proceed aspect, can only be put/placed/switched/keyed (whatever) back to danger in certain circumstances (or error); there is no need for signals to time out and revert to danger, on their own.* The only time I suppose, when a signal times out, is when the filament/paraffin dies.There have been a few British signalling installations with semaphore signals that automatically revert to danger when a train passes. The first that springs to mind is the Hall automatic semaphores that were installed on the York-Northallerton stretch of the ECML before quadrupling. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Signal "timing out" 21/10/2013 at 08:44 #50206 | |
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Stephen Fulcher
2078 posts |
I think most motorised semaphores will,automatically revert after the passage of trains.
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| Signal "timing out" 22/10/2013 at 09:59 #50241 | |
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Haraubrad
103 posts |
When Quainton Road box was operational (1960s), the up outer home and distant signals were motor semaphores. As the outer home berth track became occupied the distant reverted to on, when the track circuit in advance of the outer home was occupied that reverted to on. It required the levers to be reversed and the relevant track circuits to be clear before the signals would clear again. When the box was switched out the procedure was the same except when all track circuits on the up line went clear the signals cleared again.. Staverton Road had a motor semaphore I B and I B distant on the up, Hucknall Central likewise on the down. they all reverted to on when passed. Aubrey Log in to reply |