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| 1977 18/03/2014 at 17:24 #57305 | |
paul87101
67 posts |
Hi, I'm trying to make a 1977 timetable but I have found some big omissions, ie Duddeston CS and Exchange Sidings which are both used in 1977. Paul Log in to reply |
| 1977 18/03/2014 at 17:43 #57306 | |
58050
2659 posts 
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I'd agree with the fact that both Duddeston CS & Exchange Sdgs were used as I'be got a Birmingham Division Trip Notice for 1977, but this is the anomaly you get when writing timetables outside the eras covered by the sim. Something I've come across before when writing timetables. You'll probably have to alter those locations to others to fit the timetable or wait until such yime those locations get added, if they ever do that is.
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| 1977 18/03/2014 at 17:58 #57308 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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There is also a similar issue with Penkridge Exchange Sdgs in the Wolverhampton sim. MGR trains to & from Littleton Colliery used to be forwarded by the BR loco from Penkridge Exchange Sdgs, whilst the NCB loco used to trip between the colliery & the exchange sdgs. Although the trackwork is shown on the panel, there are no locations in the location list to timetable anything in or out. So for my 1988 Wolverhampton timetable I'm having to change that by entering trains from Stafford & or use an alternative such as Silverdale Colliery or Trentham Colliery in the Stoke On Trent area.
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| 1977 18/03/2014 at 18:36 #57317 | |
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paul87101
67 posts |
" said:I'd agree with the fact that both Duddeston CS & Exchange Sdgs were used as I'be got a Birmingham Division Trip Notice for 1977, but this is the anomaly you get when writing timetables outside the eras covered by the sim. Something I've come across before when writing timetables. You'll probably have to alter those locations to others to fit the timetable or wait until such yime those locations get added, if they ever do that is. Thanks The sim era I'm using is 1976-1991 Paul Log in to reply |
| 1977 18/03/2014 at 19:02 #57319 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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1976-1991 covers alot of alterations to the trackwork & signals. You'll probably need to amend the timetable to suit the sim layout for that period as I will if there are missing locations for the 1988 tt.
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| 1977 18/03/2014 at 19:08 #57320 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:Hi,Duddeston CS looks like it would be off the sim at Vauxhall, as far as I can tell. Exchange Sidings SF was open until 1989, however, and looks like it had connections to the Stour and Camp Hill lines - it could probably be fudged off-map at Bordesley Jn if it's not going to be added. Last edited: 18/03/2014 at 19:10 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| 1977 18/03/2014 at 20:03 #57325 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
Exchange Sidings lasted longer than I originally thought. At this stage I'm not inclined to change the sim because there is already a "seam" there, joining the different layouts at Proof House. Adding another is feasible but I think I would need migraine tablets! :pinch: The further back the eras go, the more difficult it can be to source reliable information. We do our best though! Will look at the Wolverhampton issue too. SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| 1977 18/03/2014 at 20:14 #57326 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
I've yet to come across any information regarding what the connections into Exchange Sidings actually were! All I've found is a resignalling notice from the early stages of New Street PSB, which isn't likely to be a reliable reflection on how it ended up once everything was done! On a related topic, did the U&D Vauxhall Goods, which connected where Curzon St Jn is now, last into New Street PSB's life? Curzon Street Goods Yard supposedly closed in 1966, which may imply that the trackwork around there was rationalised at the time. Log in to reply |
| 1977 18/03/2014 at 21:01 #57331 | |
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eddy
45 posts |
Curzon St shunt frame was in existence till around 2000 when Proofhouse/Grand Junction was re-signalled. There was a Post office sorting depot there at one point. access in and out of Curzon St was via the up and Down slow Vauxhall lines as they were called. There was also dual controlled crossovers on the up and down fast and up and down slow, controlled by New St and Vauxhall shunt frame which is Aston control centre now. You could also access Curzon St via the up and down Stour as well by a release given by New St. regards Eddy Log in to reply The following user said thank you: GeoffM |
| 1977 19/03/2014 at 08:58 #57353 | |
jc92
3685 posts |
" said:Hi,unless you have a station working book, good luck with the parcels shunts and stock workings. I have a 1982 SWB and its quite a complicated set of moves overnight! "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| 1977 19/03/2014 at 09:56 #57354 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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Thanks for your comments Geoff. I do have a 1972 LMR Sectional Appendix Southern Area as well as 2 copies of the 1980 LMR SEctional Appendix for the Southern area. Let me know when you want me to scan the pages for you & I'll do it. Both those Section Appendixes are in book format where as the 1985/86 & the 1989 editions I have are in ring binders.
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| 1977 19/03/2014 at 11:27 #57359 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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jc92 wrote: Quote: unless you have a station working book, good luck with the parcels shunts and stock workings. I have a 1982 SWB and its quite a complicated set of moves overnight! I'd second that. I've got 6 station working books dating between 1987-1990 & even in that period there are a myriad of trains, not only loco hauled, but units that split & join all over the place. What you may get away with Paul is a Section CE Mandatory WTT which covers between Aston, Landor Street Jn., St. Andrews Jn., Birmingham New Street, Church Road Jn. & Galton Jn. I've got one that covers between 14th May, 1979 to 11th May, 1980 & the platform numbers allocated to each service is printed in that.(That is if you don't already have it). As Joe says to attempt to do a timetable without a station working book or Section CE WTT wouldn't be easy. Good luck to you anyway Paul. Log in to reply |
| 1977 09/05/2014 at 11:23 #60231 | |
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paul87101
67 posts |
Hi, Just an update, working on 1977 Summer Saturday tt. Bugs noticed so far in 1976 Sim Era No Duddeston CS (Curzon St used) No junction at Duddeston No Exchange Sdgs (Curzon St used) Sandwell & Dudley should be Oldbury Trains cannot enter at Up Sutton (1970s)- won't validate Crossover E into P3 should not exist and should not be used Locos from SY Loco Depot appear from Water Orton Five Ways and University did not exist. Paul Log in to reply |
| 1977 09/05/2014 at 11:30 #60232 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
the Sutton Fringe is a Known issue. Five ways and University did exist in 1991. its a broad era for the sim and doubtless there were many changes to the layout between 1976 and 1991 which cannot all be covered. Five ways and university were both opened in 1978 as part of Cross City, so should exist on the given era. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply The following user said thank you: paul87101 |
| 1977 09/05/2014 at 11:48 #60233 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
> No Exchange Sdgs (Curzon St used) Known issue, although Geoff wasn't sure whether he'd implement it, due to the Proof House area already being quite complicated in the different eras. > No Duddeston CS (Curzon St used) Duddeston CS would not be controlled by the area simulated, so I'm not sure this is too much of an issue - I believe signals 76/84 on the Vauxhall Slow show its location. > Crossover E into P3 should not exist and should not be used Was it introduced before 1991? > Sandwell & Dudley should be Oldbury It's half and half during the era represented - I think that you'd need to split the eras again at 1984 to be able to have two separate names? > Locos from SY Loco Depot appear from Water Orton Not too sure what you're getting at on this one - am I right to think that SY Depot was located opposite Lawley St FLT, and hence locos should come up via the Camp Hill lines if timetabled that way? The New St sim makes no mention of Water Orton. One I noticed which I don't think has been flagged up before is that Duddeston station is incorrectly named "Vauxhall" in the 76-91 mode - the station was renamed in 1974, before the era simulated. Last edited: 09/05/2014 at 11:49 by Danny252 Log in to reply The following user said thank you: paul87101 |
| 1977 09/05/2014 at 13:00 #60236 | |
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paul87101
67 posts |
Thanks for the reply " said: > No Exchange Sdgs (Curzon St used)True. My main problem is that I can't find a way for trains from Up Sutton (1970s) to validate. Checked Wiki. Thanks Paul Log in to reply |
| 1977 09/05/2014 at 13:13 #60238 | |
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58050
2659 posts
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Trains failing to enter or validate due to no paths found on the Up Sutton has already been reported on MANTIS, that's why I've abandoned writing the summer 1988 timetable for New Street until the sim has been updated with the issues fixed.
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| 1977 09/05/2014 at 15:56 #60244 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
Quote:I mean trains from SY appear on the Down Derby from Water Orton in the Saltley Train Describer box.You've still got me totally lost. Where else do you expect them to arrive on the New Street sim if not the Down Derby from Saltley Box at Landor Street Jn? The U&D Camp Hill Thro Siding is entirely within Saltley's area of control, assuming the Saltley sim's depiction of it is accurate for 1977. Last edited: 09/05/2014 at 15:58 by Danny252 Log in to reply |
| 1977 09/05/2014 at 16:10 #60246 | |
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JamesN
1607 posts |
The Down Derby entry point is equivalent to Water Orton, yes. To put all the pointwork etc associated with representing Saltley's control area in, and code the sim to work it automagically would be a nightmare, and wouldn't really add anything to the sim. Set the entry point as Down Derby and apply an offset to the departure time for the LIP
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| 1977 09/05/2014 at 16:13 #60247 | |
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jc92
3685 posts |
what he means is that when a train enters on the down Derby, it appears "miles away" on the train describer, rather than about 2-3 signals away as it would if it run up from the Camp Hill through, or from WWH1. the Wiki WTT notes show the Derby entry point should be Landor St. Junction, but the train describer doesnt exactly reflect this. edit: James replied at the same time. "We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Last edited: 09/05/2014 at 16:14 by jc92 Log in to reply |
| 1977 10/05/2014 at 12:18 #60283 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
Oh, on the little "out of area" display - I've always taken those to be at best slightly fun to look at when you're bored, and at worst somewhat annoying as you get the "train entering area" message very early in some cases (e.g. Coventry). They're certainly not meant to be accurate representations!
Last edited: 10/05/2014 at 14:42 by Danny252 Log in to reply |