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| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 00:40 #62139 | |
eeldump
19 posts |
So, I'm playing Westbury with the stock TT and the Avoiding line closed (under possession), when a light loco heading into the Down yard leaves me with a gift in the form of a TKO on track circuit TDD (it's the TC where the Down yard lead crosses the nascent Down Salisbury line), which of course locks the puzzle switch at Westbury South Jn reverse due to the route ahead of the TKO being stuck on. Initially, I throw OOS stickies all over the place while I route trains around the problem (6V24 got P1 at Westbury instead of the Dn Receiving). Eventually, I get reminded (by another forum thread) that you can simulate having someone hand throw dual control points using the ICP, so, once I figure out some switch IDs, and power swing and lock some of the surrounding points each way to make sure they still worked, I decide to go into the ICP and do the SimSig equivalent of having someone at the station trundle over and man the puzzle switch, swinging it normal for the time being so that I can get 6C601 into the Salisbury headshunt spur...but then, the points just sit there, flashing out of correspondence, and leaving me wondering just what the simulated switchman is doing! So...is it normal for manually swung points to be out of correspondence until they're put back in automatic mode, or have I hit a bug in the sim? Log in to reply |
| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 02:21 #62140 | |
GeoffM
6380 posts |
"Out of correspondence" means a difference in what the interlocking told the points to do, and what the points reported doing. So if those points were locked by a subroute in one position, and you hand crank them to the other position, then indeed they are out of correspondence. If the points in a track circuit are in a valid combination of positions then the train will follow the lie of the points, even if they're flashing OOC on the screen. (For those puzzling over a puzzle switch, it's the North American term for a double slip; maybe a single slip too. Though that may be regional as I know some US engineers refer to them as double slips) SimSig Boss Log in to reply The following user said thank you: eeldump |
| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 03:57 #62141 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
IMO eeldump deserves a special prize for managing to cram more jargon into a single post than anyone else I've seen on this forum in a long while. 
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| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 06:35 #62143 | |
ozrail
197 posts |
In NSW Australia we call them compound points. In the easiest way to understand them is to think of them as two sets of points really close together. Correction. The NSW Asset Standards Authority calls them Double Slips or Single Slips The compound term must be a colloquialism.
Last edited: 27/06/2014 at 06:47 by ozrail Reason: Correction. Log in to reply |
| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 08:35 #62148 | |
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kbarber
1764 posts |
Geoff is absolutely correct, the bit that perhaps wants adding is that after winding (pumping for clamp locks) by hand, the points will have to be secured by a 'clip' (which, in reality, is a rather large screw-up clamp like a specially-shaped 'G' cramp familiar to carpenters); only when that has been done can the signalman authorise a train past the protecting signal (and of course that will, by definition, be held at danger so there's no way round talking trains by and coping with train descriptions not stepping). Because it's such a faff, there's a tendency to try and work the points as little as possible once they've been clipped - obviously that's easier at some locations than others and at Westbury I'd simply expect to put through trains anywhere but the down reception, unless they were likely to remain int he yard until the failure was fixed (a good Train Crew Supervisor getting relieving crews out promptly would be a godsend, and usually they'd do their best even if it meant using spare men and stepping crews up). At least you've got someone at the station trained and authorised to wind the points. Since privatisation it seems to have become the norm that it can only be done by a Mobile Operations Manager, who will invariably be at the wrong end of the patch and have to drive through rush hour traffic. (It's called S**'s Law.) Hence the all-too-frequent situation where the entire service is suspended for a 'signalling equipment failure'!!! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: eeldump |
| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 10:33 #62150 | |
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Danny252
1461 posts |
" said:In NSW Australia we call them compound points. In the easiest way to understand them is to think of them as two sets of points really close together. Correction. The NSW Asset Standards Authority calls them Double Slips or Single Slips The compound term must be a colloquialism.Similar situation in the UK - "Compound Points" is an older term that I don't hear used much in modern situations. Quote: (It's called S**'s Law.)I think that's the first time I've ever seen "sod" censored out... Log in to reply |
| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 11:39 #62151 | |
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Hugh Jampton
69 posts |
" said:IMO eeldump deserves a special prize for managing to cram more jargon into a single post than anyone else I've seen on this forum in a long while. :)Is "IMO" in the glossary? Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Peter Bennet |
| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 12:22 #62154 | |
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welshdragon
315 posts |
He means "In My Opinion", which can be also used as IMHO "In My Honest/Humble Opinion
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| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 14:55 #62157 | |
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Firefly
521 posts |
I think Hugh's tongue was firmly in his cheek when he wrote that.
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| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 27/06/2014 at 18:26 #62174 | |
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eeldump
19 posts |
So, I decided to put 6C601 through P1 at Westbury and reverse it on the mainline at the south end of the station, just before Westbury Masters Jn, then put it into the yard. The Yardmaster wanted me to send the train into the New Sidings, so I told the switchman to wind the points normal, as the double-slip needs to be normal for that move. Then, I gave 6C601 the authority to pass signal 703 at danger, which went OK until it ran into the slip switch, which caused the driver to stop and complain that the points were set against his train! What a numpty!
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| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 28/06/2014 at 17:22 #62201 | |
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Jay_G
54 posts |
While we are on topic, when (if ever) will be be able to get a failed set of points (ie no N/R detection) pumped/wound over to a position, AND a train take it? Whenever I have tried it (no N detection, so MOM has wound them over to normal, and he would of secured them!) the train then moans about points being set against train!
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| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 28/06/2014 at 21:54 #62217 | |
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Hawk777
386 posts |
I’ve manually wound points and driven a train over them, I think in Exeter sim.
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| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 30/06/2014 at 06:26 #62289 | |
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clive
2799 posts |
" said:He means "In My Opinion", which can be also used as IMHO "In My Honest/Humble OpinionPersonally I prefer to use IMAO. Log in to reply |
| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 30/06/2014 at 13:51 #62311 | |
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larsht
12 posts |
Funnily enough double slips are referred to as "a full englishman" in danish railway glossary, while single slips are referred to as "a half englishman"
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| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 30/06/2014 at 15:04 #62317 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
" said:" said:In my almighty opinion?He means "In My Opinion", which can be also used as IMHO "In My Honest/Humble OpinionPersonally I prefer to use IMAO. 
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| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 30/06/2014 at 15:21 #62318 | |
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Finger
220 posts |
" said:Funnily enough double slips are referred to as "a full englishman" in danish railway glossary, while single slips are referred to as "a half englishman" Exactly! In the Czech republic it's the same (although the official term is different). Quote: In the easiest way to understand them is to think of them as two sets of points really close together. I think that analogy is misleading - it's easier to think of them as slip points. Log in to reply |
| Manually swinging puzzle (slip) switches 30/06/2014 at 16:39 #62323 | |
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GW43125
495 posts |
" said:" said:SimSig needs a 'like' button!" said:Arrogant I thinK!" said:In my almighty opinion? ;)He means "In My Opinion", which can be also used as IMHO "In My Honest/Humble OpinionPersonally I prefer to use IMAO. 
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