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| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 13:31 #63812 | |
Javelin395
272 posts |
I think I'm correct in saying that some of you on here are real life signallers at West Hampstead. Just wanted to say thanks for minimising the delays to the 14.58 service from St Pancras to Sheffield (1F45). Announcements at St Pancras mentioned the inbound service had been delayed by a broken down FCC train at Cricklewood. Despite this my train was quickly turned around and we were only 3 minutes down leaving London. We were 7 down by the time we reached Sheffield with the guard mentioning signalling issues between Leicester and Derby. RealTrainTimes shows 2T43 as being cancelled between West Hampstead Thameslink and Brighton due to door problems so I'm guessing this was the culprit for my slightly delayed departure from London. It is shown as 20L passing West Hampstead Thameslink. Just out of curiosity, why did this cause delays to 1F45 as surely the inbound service forming 1F45 would have been on the UF whilst the offending FCC would have been on the US ? As an aside, aren't the Class 222s horrid. The interior seems rather claustrophobic. Low seats with high backs meant all I could see was the back of the seat infront of me for 2 hours. Luggage racks were insufficient such that they were already full when I joined my train whilst the overhead shelf space was so close to the ceiling that very little can actually be put up there. Then they ask you to keep aisles free for the trolley service !! What was I meant to do - spend 2 hours with my case on my lap ? Either increase luggage space (bring back the guard van) or do away with the trolley (and bring back the buffet car). Log in to reply |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 14:06 #63813 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
" said:As an aside, aren't the Class 222s horrid. The interior seems rather claustrophobic. Low seats with high backs meant all I could see was the back of the seat infront of me for 2 hours. Luggage racks were insufficient such that they were already full when I joined my train whilst the overhead shelf space was so close to the ceiling that very little can actually be put up there. Then they ask you to keep aisles free for the trolley service !! What was I meant to do - spend 2 hours with my case on my lap ? Either increase luggage space (bring back the guard van) or do away with the trolley (and bring back the buffet car).Yet they're still so much better than Voyagers, by interior design alone... I'd say Voyagers seem even more claustrophobic and have the added problem of being far too short. Last edited: 15/08/2014 at 14:06 by Muzer Log in to reply |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 15:38 #63818 | |
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Javelin395
272 posts |
Muzer, I have heard that said about the 220s before. However as I don't travel by train very often these days I've not really got much personal experience. What made me realise just how horrid the 222s are was the fact that I was travelling between Sheffield and Wareham. The leg between Wareham and Waterloo was on SWT class 444s which seemed positively wide bodied by comparision with good views along the carriage (I like looking around me and people watching). About 5 years ago now I did have direct comparison of the 220s and 222s when travelling between Sheffield and St Pancras. Having just missed the EMT 222 service I was advised to take a XC 220 to Derby then change there (back then it was only 1tph Sheffield -> London). I can't really remember the 220 being any worse than the 222 but I was probably just relieved to be on my way). Says it all when a train nearly 40 years old now (HST) is infinitely more comfortable than what is on offer today. BR did get some things right !! Sooner the MML is electrified the better then at least I won't have to put up with the incessant vibration and noise from the underfloor engines too. Last edited: 15/08/2014 at 15:42 by Javelin395 Log in to reply |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 15:59 #63819 | |
58050
2659 posts |
I've lived on the Midland Mainline virtually the whole of my life as well as working on it during my time on the footplate & in the regional controls. I say the sooner we return to 'Peak'(Cl.45/1) hauled trains with 8Mk.2 air-cons & a buffet car the better, as opposed to the mickey mouse trains we've got today. That said anything loco hauled for me is a step in the right direction instead of the plastic piffle we've got today.
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| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 16:07 #63820 | |
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Javelin395
272 posts |
58050 I'm going to pick a small fight with you there. The Mk3 coach with its secondary air suspension is a much smoother ride from my point of view as a passenger. And of course the acceleration / deceleration characteristics of an HST compared with a Cl45 means a faster journey time too.
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| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 16:43 #63821 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Well from working on HSTs when I was on the footplate the seats in the cab had pathetic arms rests, same seats as in Cl.56s. I'm not too bothered about the acceleration on HSTs as in my opinion they were the death knell for a lot of locos & loco hauled trains. HSTs are all well & good providing both power cars keep running. Cl.45s were very reliable I personally on failed with one once & that was due to a fuel leak on Cricklewood TMD. The 'Peak' was a very fast accelerating loco as far as it goes compared to other 1st generation BR traction units. This was partly due to the Cl.45s having more field diverts than any other loco, they had 5. The only thing I didn't like with Cl.45s was the power handle had a tendency to close or shut off the second you took your hand off it unlike Cl.31s or Cl.47s. At the end of the day its down to personal taste & what you worked on goes a long way to forming your opinion. Alot of my ex BR colleagues that are older than me prefer steam traction as that is what they worked on & grew up with. They call diesels 'boxes on wheels', whereas for me I'm a diesel man & I'd happily stay on a train all day if it was a loco hauled train with a loco I liked on the front. Today I hate traveling by train as there is nothing I can say I like about the modern traction we're stuck with. I agree Mk.3 coaches are good & comfortable & ridden on them many times over the WCML behind Cl.86s & Cl.87s. Looking back over the past 40 years the Midland Mainline has had some good traction on the line. The Bed-Pan DMUs Cl.127s were diesel hydraulic & for me I think they were the best units in the country, certainly they had higher horse power than any other 1st generation DMU & you didn't need to go through all the gears when you drove them you could just select 'D' & open the power handle & off you went. Remember the Midland mainline is up & down all the way to Sheffield so the 'Peaks' were well suited to the route as they were good hill climbers & due to their weight didn't suffer from wheel slip. Cl.222s don't seem to be affected by gradients, not surprising as each vehicle is powered, but as you say the interior design isn't the best & with an engine underneath every floor there's no getting away from that noise either. I'm sure there are people on here that rate Cl.220s & Cl.222s, but for me there's nothing about them I like even if I had to spend 5 minutes every day on one that would be too much. Unfortunately there's no getting away from it. Fortunately I don't travel on the train that much these days. Thats said each to there own I suppose its what you are used to.
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| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 17:10 #63822 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts 
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If I were an occasional traveller then I'd agree that you can't beat a loco and coaches. As a commuter the idea of a class 31+MK1s day in and day out vice my daily 365s; I think the novelty would soon wear off. Mind you am not looking forward at all to the Class 700. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Javelin395 |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 17:30 #63823 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
You ain't got much choice there Peter, unless you work from home. Driving to B3edford to commute you'd still be stuck with the Cl.700s. Yeah I agree with you on that fact that Cl.365s would be better than a Cl.31 with a rake of Mk.1s. Recently I traveled from Marylebone to High Wycombe & the only thing I liked about the new units was the fact that they were air conditioned as it was a very hot day. Even the tube train ride from King's Cross/St. Pancras to Baker Street was bearable as that unit was air conditioned. But if I had a choice of travelling from St. pancras to Chesterfield everyday then I'd rather have a loco hauled train than a Cl.222, despite the acceleration & braking capabilities of the Cl.222 being superior to a Cl.47/4+9. That said I spent alot of time in the early 1990s riding behind Cl.31s on the Liverpool Lime Street - Blackpool North - Liverpool Lime Street trains with 5 or 6 Mk.2a/b/cs. What do they use today? Is it any better than the early 1990? For the rail enthusiast I doubt it.
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| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 17:42 #63824 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
 45104 passing Oakley, north of Bedford on the Up Fast with a Derby - London St. Pancras service on 310388. Javelin395 Cl.222s or HSTs not in the same league as this train for me. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 18:04 #63827 | |
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Javelin395
272 posts |
58050 As you say there is a certain amount of nostalgia for you. For me it is purely down to passenger experience so you can't beat an HST (even if they did result in the demise of the Deltics). Again, purely from a passenger point of view I can't really see any difference between a loco hauled train and an HST - the HST is basically a train with a loco at each end. Operationally the HST must have made things more convenient as they removed the need for all those loco changes at terminii (although I agree that makes SimSig less fun which is why I'm such a fan of your TTs). Hope I don't cause you any offence - just like arguing an alternative view (although in this instance my own belief happens to coincide with the view I'm arguing for). PS I'd rather an HST with one failed power car than a loco hauled service with one failed loco :evil: Last edited: 15/08/2014 at 18:06 by Javelin395 Log in to reply |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 18:46 #63830 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts
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" said:58050Hmm we used to bash the Edinburgh-Dundee circuit with Area K rovers in the hope that the loco would fail and a pair of 20s appear from Thornton. One of the summers of the 1980s was particularly bad for HSTs overheating and expiring and somewhere I have a photo of an HST at York with the bonnet open and a CL31 backing down to take it forward. " said: You ain't got much choice there Peter, unless you work from home. Driving to B3edford to commute you'd still be stuck with the Cl.700s. Yeah I agree with you on that fact that Cl.365s would be better than a Cl.31 with a rake of Mk.1s.On the Class 700s, I met with FCC's management recently and pointed out that currently the Welwyn viaduct is at capacity (per Rules of the Route) between 8am and 8.59 (sample hour and when my train crosses) and FCC currently shove 6808 seats across it. If every FCC/TSGN train is converted to the max length 700 for the stopping pattern it would be 6609: completely bizarre. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 15/08/2014 at 20:19 #63833 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Peter Bennet wrote: Quote: Hmm we used to bash the Edinburgh-Dundee circuit with Area K rovers in the hope that the loco would fail and a pair of 20s appear from Thornton. One of the summers of the 1980s was particularly bad for HSTs overheating and expiring and somewhere I have a photo of an HST at York with the bonnet open and a CL31 backing down to take it forward. I bet that was a right stagger with a type 2 on the front. In any event a HST set with a failed power car is pretty much the same as a train of 10 coaches or more with a type diesel on the front. The advantage of HSTs was that you always put the ETS supply on the rear power car, cos if that developed a fault & shut down just switched the ETS supply to run off the leading power car instead of having to walk to the rear power car & switch it in there if you had the ETS supply running off the front power car & that shut down. Acceleration rate of HST sets on 1 power car are crap & bear in mind its a Bo-Bo with 7 or 8 Mk.3 coaches & a dead power car, not exactly a light load. During my 12 years as a loco controller with BR, Mainline Freight & later EWS I've rescued all sorts of passenger trains with various different locos. More often than not the train would have more enthusiasts on it than fare paying members of the public. One of the reasons the Friday evening relief from St. Pancras - Derby which was booked for a Cl.37/4 was knocked on the head was due to the high number of enthusiasts on the train & the fare paying public complaining about there antics on the train. I remember one morning when I was on the loco control at Nottingham & whilst the loco controllers covering the south end of the country were changing over I answered a call where the overnight sleeper from inverness - London Euston had failed in the vicinity of Rugby(the cl.90 loco had lost its pantograph). So I dispatched 37244 with Rugby driver Les Perry to go on the front & assist the sleeper through to London Euston. Much to the annoyance of all the Cl.37 bashers, firstly because they couldn't get on the train even if they wanted to as the train wasn't booked to stop at Rugby, it was right say London Euston. So if you place a picture on your head of this type 3 loco hauling a dead Cl.90+14 coaches on the Up Slow all the way to Euston. Les told me afterwards that the train never even got to 75mph & the overnight sleeper has only ever been worked into London Euston on 2 occasions with a Cl.37/0.(The other time being 37219 & that wasn't me that time). I doubt if anyone who was on that train that day realised the significance of what hauled there train to London in rail enthusiasts circles. I bet the Cl.37/0 sounded good though trying to maintain or even get up to 75mph that morning.The failed train was 1M16 2030 Inverness - london Euston. Last edited: 15/08/2014 at 20:34 by 58050 Log in to reply |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 16/08/2014 at 21:13 #63852 | |
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MrBitsy
121 posts |
" said:2T45 is a semi fast service and goes fast line at Harpenden Junction. It will go slow line at either West Hampstead or Carlton road. I was on duty that day in the morning so do not know the details, but what usually happens is this. As soon as an FCC comes to a stand on the U/F, signals behind will be returned to danger and the East Midlands diverted to the slow lines. Normally that will result in a 5 minute odd delay to the East Midland (or longer if the timing means it goes behind an all stations if the stopper had already passed the junction). Similarly if there is a failure of the infrastructure on the fast line, requiring a signal to be passed at danger for example, the all station FCCs will be put fast line and the East Midlands will go slow. The FCC will be stopping all stations anyway, so it makes sense to have them on the line with the issue. Fast FCC St.Albans-West Hampstead / Pancras will of course go slow line between the Midlands. Minimising delay to all is the challenge, its what makes the job interesting :-) TVSC Link 4 signaller - Temple Meads, Bath & Stoke Gifford Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Javelin395 |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 16/08/2014 at 22:24 #63853 | |
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Javelin395
272 posts |
Yes MrBitsy you are quite right - I should have looked more closely at the paths on RealTrainTimes instead of assuming the class 1 would go fast line and the class 2 slow line :blush: Still, you give a very interesting insight into the strategies used to minimise delays. May well prove useful for the West Hampstead SimSiggers !! Log in to reply |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 17/08/2014 at 00:05 #63856 | |
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bill_gensheet
1413 posts
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Quote:Les told me afterwards that the train never even got to 75mph & the overnight sleeper has only ever been worked into London Euston on 2 occasions with a Cl.37/0.(The other time being 37219 & that wasn't me that time).I suspect there were a few more than that. I saw 2 pairs go through Oxford on southbound sleepers on 11 May 1985. Those were diversions following an accident at Watford I think. The locos were Worcester based 37's (Worcester provided the Lickey bankers back then). That was standard diversion back then, but day trains were diverted to Paddington. regards Bill Log in to reply |
| West Hampstead - Delays 14/08/2014 17/08/2014 at 10:19 #63866 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Yes Bill you are right the Lickey Bankers were usually off Worcester. From my days on the footplate in the mid to late 1980s anything south of Nuneaton affecting the WCML & 'CP2'(Contingency Plan 2) came into operation at St. Pancras. This meant that all services from Glasgow Central were diverted via the ECML into King's Cross. Wolverhampton, Shrewsbury & Birmingham trains were diverted into Paddington(I've got a photo somewhere when I was on a Cl.56 woking 6V76 Cliffe Hill - Hayes & Harlington Tarmac of a Cl.58 passing West Ealing on its way into Paddington when CP2 as in operation). All Liverpool, Manchester, Preston, Blackpool & Holyhead services were diverted via the Nuneaton to leicester line & forward from Wigston South Jn & the MML to St. Pancras. I've seen all sorts of traction on these services from a single Cl.25s hauling 10-12 coaches to pairs of Cl.20s, Cl.31s, Cl.45s, Cl.47s & even Cl.56s & Cl.58s. None of the ETH locos could have the ETH on as the index was too high, only exception were Cl.31/4s whose index was higher than that of a Cl.45 or Cl.47. The last time I saw this in operation was around 1991 when they used Cl.47s between Bedford & Nuneaton, but between Bedford & St. Pancras they actually used the AC electric loco to work the trains. I was working at Liverpool Street Regional Control then & I asked the guard if I could ride on his train as it was ECS with a Cl.87 on the front & on another occasion I had a Cl.90 from St. Pancras to Bedford. The bashers certainly made the most of that weekends unusual traction diversions of AC electric hauled trains in & out of St. Pancras.
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