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| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 09:47 #64348 | |
GW43125
495 posts |
Good morning all, Apologies if this isn't the right place to post this, but does anyone know what the policy is on declassifying first class? I ask as yesterday, waiting for a train at St Pancras, I saw the display board said 'formed of 4 coaches only (booked to be a pair of 319 I think), first class is declassified'. I didn't see how busy the train was in the end, as I gave up and went to the tube, though I assume it must have been quite busy. However, on my train home later, I was lucky to get a seat as the train was shortformed (a single 458 instead of a pair-check my signature) and didn't stop at Clapham Jn because of this. However, despite only five people in first class (there's about 25 FC seats/unit), first class was not declassified, though we still left people on the platform at Waterloo, Apologies if this is a bit verbose, but I would be grateful if anyone could help me with what the rules are regarding declassification. Thanks in advance, Jamie. Log in to reply |
| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 09:52 #64349 | |
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JamesN
1607 posts |
Absolutely at the traincrew's discretion - although orders can come from above to declassify.
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| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 10:47 #64350 | |
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Underwood
748 posts |
" said:Can you remember what service it was though? The Thameslink Metro route round the Sutton Loop is standard class only, should a 319/4 turn up then first class is declassified, as it's not advertised in the timetable. First class fares on the Sutton Loop don't exist anyway, so they couldn't sell you one if they tried Last edited: 03/09/2014 at 10:47 by Underwood Log in to reply |
| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 11:23 #64351 | |
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GW43125
495 posts |
" said:" said:This was train 2T47, the 15:24 to Brighton at St Pancras (14:24 from Bedford), pathed as a pair of 319s. The board stated "Formed of 4 coches only, first class is declassified". As I said I wasn't sure how busy it was as I decided to take the tube instead.Can you remember what service it was though? The Thameslink Metro route round the Sutton Loop is standard class only, should a 319/4 turn up then first class is declassified, as it's not advertised in the timetable. Jamie. Last edited: 03/09/2014 at 11:41 by GW43125 Log in to reply |
| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 11:32 #64353 | |
andyb0607
260 posts |
" said:" said:In general yes, although there are exceptions to the rule. For example 1V82 runs Bedford to Sutton via Wimbledon. This has 1st and standard class.Can you remember what service it was though? The Thameslink Metro route round the Sutton Loop is standard class only, should a 319/4 turn up then first class is declassified, as it's not advertised in the timetable. It then forms 2V12 back to St Albans which is standard only service. So 1st class is declassified at Sutton. Which was always handy as there are seats in first when I got on at Carshalton! Log in to reply |
| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 11:36 #64354 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
I'm not convinced on the whole "if it's not in the timetable, first class is automatically declassified" thing - I personally would always ask the guard (or wait for some other positive confirmation), at least in a non-DOO service. The section in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage that stated this was reworded in a revision a few years back so that it no longer stated this, and all people on RailUK have been able to come up with are rather vague lines of reasoning like "the timetable says it doesn't have first, therefore it must be declassified" type things, or logical arguments (SOMETIMES first class fares are not available for SOME journeys, so it should be declassified).
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| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 12:52 #64358 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
" said:Just because there's no fare shown doesn't mean they won't spend time trying to make one up, FCC seem to have a habit of almost taking people to court based on an argument they're going to lose. Log in to reply |
| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 13:26 #64359 | |
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andyb0607
260 posts |
" said:Just because there's no fare shown doesn't mean they won't spend time trying to make one up, FCC seem to have a habit of almost taking people to court based on an argument they're going to lose.Very true! The number of arguments I've had with FCC staff over the fact that 1V82 has 1st class and 2V12 doesn't! Even seen them trying to extract fines from people AFTER they admitted that 1st class was declassified! One even said to me that although there isn't 1st class accommodation on the train, the seats need to remain empty just in case a 1st class ticket holder should require the seat! Log in to reply |
| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 14:27 #64361 | |
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Underwood
748 posts |
" said:I'm not convinced on the whole "if it's not in the timetable, first class is automatically declassified" thing - I personally would always ask the guard (or wait for some other positive confirmation), at least in a non-DOO service. The section in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage that stated this was reworded in a revision a few years back so that it no longer stated this, and all people on RailUK have been able to come up with are rather vague lines of reasoning like "the timetable says it doesn't have first, therefore it must be declassified" type things, or logical arguments (SOMETIMES first class fares are not available for SOME journeys, so it should be declassified).It depends though I guess? FGW's Summer Weymouth Wizzard was declassified First Class, as standard class is the only fare on a part of the route, and it's temporary. The SWT 158 on loan to FGW I've had no problems with at all, that's without asking the guard, though it travels on some first class fare sections, I doubt they'd be bothered to make up a first class fare on the spot. Some trips I've been on I think some are unaware that you can sit in the first class section. If it's busy, I've seen staff before waving people to first class, saying it's actually standard class on this journey Log in to reply |
| First Class Declassification 03/09/2014 at 21:21 #64366 | |
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benstafford
88 posts |
Southern always declassify First Class when a 377 is on a metro service. At one point the platform displays were clear about it. There is barely any difference anyway!
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| First Class Declassification 04/09/2014 at 12:53 #64388 | |
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andyb0607
260 posts |
" said:Southern always declassify First Class when a 377 is on a metro service. At one point the platform displays were clear about it. There is barely any difference anyway!Of course there's a difference! You get a paper doily on the back of the seat saying First Class! 
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