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| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 11:58 #68764 | |
maxand
1637 posts |
I didn't realize how enjoyable SimSig could be till I mastered using ARS (Automatic Routesetting System), despite its crazy colouring scheme. See here and here. Indeed, the only decent sim IMO supporting this seems to be Swindon A&B. Unlike Peterboro, it's a scrolly and fully ARS-enabled. Both donationware, but who apart from suffering r/l signallers needs to switch between static screens these days? Which means that if I want to, I can sit back and virtually let the system run itself by enabling ARS, then ARS-enabling ALL train classes (see ARS tab). Yep, you heard me, ARS FOR ALL CLASSES (but you still have to disable some trains approaching Didcot Parkway in case ARS gets too gung-ho, then re-enable them once they have passed the tricky points). As we say down here, I gave all other sims the ARS(e) (metaphorically speaking, of course) after discovering Swindon. (I had no idea Swindon would end up so close to my heart until I discovered that Massimio Luongo (born in Sydney, f Italian, m Indonesian) played for the Spurs, then Swindon Town F.C. till undergoing a rendition to Australia by the Socceroos, so we do have something to crow about as he kicked the first goal for us in the final of the recent Asian Cup.) Enough digression for now. In the bad old days of playing SimSig I would hate myself, the sim and undewhelming documentation so much that I'd even turn off TORR in an attempt to emulate you non-quiche-eating masochists out there who cheerfully chain sims and end up doing the unpaid job of, say, up to nine ordinary signallers. But since Simsig doesn't even appear to allow us the luxury of one signaller, one panel in solo play (the other panels in the same sim made automatic), ARS is our next best choice. Okay, I hear you say, why not join us in multiplayer and we'll quickly teach you the ropes? I'm antipodean, remember, and my room is too close to the bedroom. My missus would hear a cockroach fart, even in deepest sleep... But thanks for the offer. 1 PM your time is early afternoon for me, when jobs more urgent than computer games have to take priority. I really don't want to end up like this guy. Sure, even ARS is far from being very smart at times (read the ARS section in the Swindon manual), but that's what keeps a sim from being a game - right, BarryM? So I sincerely suggest a new mode for SimSig - fully automatic, where one simply plugs a timetable in and watch it run without touching keys or mouse except to pause occasionally to see how the TT designer intended it to be done. Who needs to decipher an obfuscated manual when one can actually watch the the magic happening and replay if necessary? G'arn, you carping critics, Noisy and the like, carp away to your hearts' content. Just as I love watching model trains whizz by, I like seeing little red snakes break and reform - a bit like Conway's Game of Life. And what better way to become familiar with a totally new sim? A picture is worth a thousand words. Off-topic, who said that first? An ancient Greek? An ancient Chinese? Fail. Nope, it was an American, either Arthur Brisbane in 1911 or Fred Barnard in 1921, the latter calling it "a Chinese proverb, so that people would take it seriously." Devs please take note - Barnard was into marketing - if you wish the average guy off the street to take SimSig seriously (IMHO). Obviously, what I am asking for is completely ARS-independent, even if the selected sim has some ARS built in. It must be able to be paused, saved and re-run. It needs to run in Perfect Mode so trains have no option to enter at any other than their chosen time, and no delays built in, so that one can start running it from any time in the timetable and expect a train to appear when its schedule says it should, not at the whim of the shunter. (Okay, you could work in some delays and variations later, just to keep it interesting, while still making it completely autonomous.) Automatic (aka autonomous) running would clearly identify signals used as reversing points, unless one or more signals can be used for this purpose, in which case it would select the first, thus identifying the area if the user still can't understand which area is meant, and provide other signal possibilities for the user to attempt later (see "variations" in previous paragraph). One of us members as I seem to recall hates spoonfeeding by overwriting the manual. Well, here's a way to debulk the manual, by actually showing us on the screen. (added) Naturally, Autonomous mode would include FULL ACI (Automatic Code Insertion) for all sims runnning in this mode. What a relief that would be. I'd like to think that something like this could be inserted into the core code as "fully automatic mode". The other great benefit is that it might force TT writers to make sure their TTs are achievable by mortals, and in fact make it a condition of TT acceptance by the devs. And pigs might fly. Last edited: 04/02/2015 at 12:33 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 12:10 #68766 | |
postal
5265 posts 
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Max Good to see it's only taken you 3 weeks to believe the advice I gave on 14 January in response to your "Sims good for learning ARS" topic. "Not really a case of mastering it; when things are all going OK it is a case of sitting back in the armchair, lighting the cigar and watching the sim run itself." “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: JamesN |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 12:23 #68767 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Thanks postal, yeah it all finally sunk in, however ARS is usually touted as an advanced refinement (read more difficult to learn), than something beginners should learn to sink their teeth into early. Or call it Learning mode, one level more basic than Perfect mode! Anyhow, what I'm suggesting here is a totally ARSLESS new mode - let's call it AUTONOMOUS mode for now - to make the distinction quite clear, and available to ALL sims, not just those with a bit o' ARS in 'em. (Added) Actually, hee hee, in sims which are ARS-enabled, the ARS option should still be enabled IN AUTONOMOUS MODE and FOR ALL CLASSES. This would certainly be a painless intro to ARS and assist those who have troubles coming to grips with its colour scheme. Last edited: 04/02/2015 at 12:40 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 12:38 #68768 | |
memorialstingray
21 posts |
Maxand, if you want totally autonomous sims, it is available on every released sim...... you simply join a multi-player game and watch others doing the work hey presto autonomous SimSig
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| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 12:42 #68770 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Quote:you simply join a multi-player game and watch others doing the work hey presto autonomous SimSigYou mean I give up valuable sleep time to watch others make unenviable mistakes? If my missus were there she would hit you over the head with the nearest available object, probably your keyboard. Last edited: 04/02/2015 at 12:43 by maxand Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 12:49 #68771 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
" said:Thanks postal, yeah it all finally sunk in, however ARS is usually touted as an advanced refinement (read more difficult to learn), than something beginners should learn to sink their teeth into early.On the contrary - SwinDid, Southampton and Peterborough are touted as good sims for people to progress onto from the likes of Royston because they have ARS. I'm not sure where you've got the impression of "difficult to learn" from but it's not been any manual or forum post I've seen. Also I don't recall any sims that aren't "fully ARS enabled" - there are sims where certain routes aren't set by ARS but that's because, as previously discussed, ARS shouldn't be setting call-on routes or routes into non-track circuited areas, to give but 2 examples. You say give your suggested mode a different name to make the distinction, but provide no detail on what that distinction is? Where is ARS falling down that you'd like this "Autonomous mode" to pick up the pieces? And on all sims? Adding ARS easily doubles the filesize (read amount of programming) of the sim. Also, some layouts simply don't lend themselves to automation - too many converging junctions and conflicts for the computer to reliably and correctly regulate. No scratch-written automation is going to be able to regulate any better than ARS already does. The problems preventing automation are not one of programming, they're of a computer's ability to make the correct decisions. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 12:56 #68773 | |
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Jersey_Mike
250 posts |
A friend of mine who is a dispatcher for Amtrak once had a weekend daylight shift on the Northeast Corridor Section 3 desk where there were no scheduled diverging movements for the entire 8 hours. It was possible to set all the switches to straight rail, fleet all the signals and let the railroad run itself. This wasn't a small amount of track either as the territory was 50 miles long!
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| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 13:09 #68774 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
JamesN wrote: Quote: You say give your suggested mode a different name to make the distinction, but provide no detail on what that distinction is? Where is ARS falling down that you'd like this "Autonomous mode" to pick up the pieces? And on all sims? Adding ARS easily doubles the filesize (read amount of programming) of the sim.I thought I said it all in my original post, just amplified it in post #3. Quote: Obviously, what I am asking for is completely ARS-independent, even if the selected sim has some ARS built in. It must be able to be paused, saved and re-run. It needs to run in Perfect Mode so trains have no option to enter at any other than their chosen time, and no delays built in, so that one can start running it from any time in the timetable and expect a train to appear when its schedule says it should, not at the whim of the shunter. (Okay, you could work in some delays and variations later, just to keep it interesting, while still making it completely autonomous.)I am NOT suggesting that ARS be incorporated into all sims (that would be non-realistic for many) but that ALL sims be capable of automatically executing any timetable written for them, maybe commencing with one or two of the easier ones. I could have asked for a special timetable written for each sim that accomplishes this, but that would not render some of the existing timetables less opaque. Can't see why the sim code can't simply pick up on the next timing point for ANY train and keep running it. This would require an ARS-LIKE feature built into the code, but no need to duplicate on existing ARS labels unless the sim is already ARS-enabled. Do you follow me here? There must be a reasonably simple way to do this. You're the first to have suggested Southampton to me - is this a scrolly or a panel? Will check it out. Last edited: 04/02/2015 at 13:13 by maxand Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 14:03 #68782 | |
Steamer
3986 posts |
" said:Max. Stop, calm down and think about it carefully. You are asking for a simulation that automatically executes a timetable, setting all routes, handling all trains and regulating correctly. You have just described ARS. In fact, you've just described something above ARS, because ARS can't handle certain things. Whether this mode is presented to the user or not is a matter of cosmetics. Surely, as a programmer, you should understand this? How on earth does the computer know how to handle a train without instructions, instructions which form the ARS code? There's no way to create a 'hidden' ARS that does everything normal ARS does and more, without adding ARS to the simulation (and further enhancing it). As JamesN said, this is a non-trivial task. I've also seen it mentioned that some layouts can't be signalled effectively with ARS, but this is well beyond my knowledge or experience so hopefully someone else will be able to elaborate. Quote: You're the first to have suggested Southampton to me - is this a scrolly or a panel? Will check it out.Southampton is scrolly but doesn't have ARS any more. The main thrust of your argument appears to be "Why not make a mode that allows the user to do absolutely nothing"- in which case, why play SimSig (or indeed any computer game/simulation) at all??? Quote: The other great benefit is that it might force TT writers to make sure their TTs are achievable by mortals, and in fact make it a condition of TT acceptance by the devs.I honestly think PC-Rail is the game for you. They have a dedicated team which tests all submitted timetables and makes sure they can be run pretty much perfectly. However, you will find yourself paying £5 to £10 per timetable for the privilege. If you're not good enough at SimSig to play a certain timetable, then, (excluding things that are obviously bugs which most TT writers will correct if you report them) that's your problem. Either accept the fact that's where you are or practice to get better. No-one will think any worse of you- everyone reached their current skill level by practice and starting from the beginning. I'll freely admit that I find Saltley a struggle- but I accept that that's what the real timetable was, and that's what the real signallers have to deal with. When I play it, I don't expect perfection, and don't get in a spin when I forget things. If I want something a bit easier, I go to other simulations that I can play better. What really bus me though, is your apparent insistence that SimSig be watered down so that you can pretend you're good at it. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 04/02/2015 at 15:30 by Steamer Log in to reply The following users said thank you: TimTamToe, larsht |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 14:20 #68783 | |
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Jersey_Mike
250 posts |
" said:I was never under the impression that SimSig had to conform to a "real world" workload, especially since many territories include multiple signal boxes, crossing boxes etc that would have their own full time staff. Moreover there's a pause button. I've never felt any compunction about using it if I get a little swamped. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: maxand |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 14:31 #68786 | |
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Ron_J
331 posts |
One thing to bear in mind is that even in real life the timetable frequently just doesn't work. Signallers can't just blindly follow the timetable; they have to make adjustments and decisions as they go along. Despite your lengthy rambling explanations I simply cannot see the attraction of watching the simulation play itself. What's the point of that? Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Dick |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 14:38 #68787 | |
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Hooverman
306 posts |
" said:One thing to bear in mind is that even in real life the timetable frequently just doesn't work. Signallers can't just blindly follow the timetable; they have to make adjustments and decisions as they go along.Thinking of real life timetables that don't work, London Bridgde Low Level (Central side) post Christmas layout change springs to mind. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 15:03 #68788 | |
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Steamer
3986 posts |
" said:" said:I agree, in SimSig you're (generally) presented with a larger area than a real signaller, although a real signaller would also have to liase with adjacent boxes, TOC controls and so on which SimSig players don't have to do. ARS has been provided on quite a few simulations in recognition of the fact that the area is bigger.I was never under the impression that SimSig had to conform to a "real world" workload, especially since many territories include multiple signal boxes, crossing boxes etc that would have their own full time staff. Moreover there's a pause button. I've never felt any compunction about using it if I get a little swamped. I might not have phrased my first post in the right way. To be clear, I'm not looking down on anyone else, and not judging anyone on their ability to play SimSig. My point was more that SimSig is what it is, and almost everyone seems largely happy with that. The more you play, the better you get, and the larger the areas you can handle. What I don't see the point in, is dumbing it down so you don't have to think- I see SimSig as a puzzle game, where the whole point is engaging with the puzzle to solve it. I don't see the point in Max's suggestion because if you aren't actively setting routes, or actively monitoring ARS ready to intervene, then what's the point in playing? "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Dick, Temple Meads, BarryM, GoochyB, TimTamToe |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 15:08 #68789 | |
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Jersey_Mike
250 posts |
I actually use the time multiplyer as a method to keep a constant level of challenge. If things get slow then I just speed them up until I am fully occupied.
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| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 15:22 #68791 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
" said:A wise man in Brstol panel once said that the railway was very much like a game of chess, in that you can get snookered quite easily. Kev Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 15:33 #68793 | |
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Hooverman
306 posts |
" said:" said:As I tell my LOM, it is one of the biggest problem solving puzzle games in the world except that the didficulty level has been raised to its max as there are real trains, commuters and track workers, and the game is getting them all to the City and back home again as safely and on time, while juggling the maintainance needs. While SimSig is just be a couple of levels below that, it still as good as it gets.A wise man in Brstol panel once said that the railway was very much like a game of chess, in that you can get snookered quite easily. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 16:22 #68797 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
" said:" said:And no referee to replace the trains exactly where they were before your last move and have another attempt, just lots of lengthy forms to fill in...A wise man in Brstol panel once said that the railway was very much like a game of chess, in that you can get snookered quite easily. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 16:23 #68798 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
" said:" said:and throw in the few bus strikes and damn it was an ugly commute those days!One thing to bear in mind is that even in real life the timetable frequently just doesn't work. Signallers can't just blindly follow the timetable; they have to make adjustments and decisions as they go along.Thinking of real life timetables that don't work, London Bridgde Low Level (Central side) post Christmas layout change springs to mind. Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 18:55 #68806 | |
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peterb
452 posts
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" said:[ramble]And the fun is where? " said: The other great benefit is that it might force TT writers to make sure their TTs are achievable by mortals, and in fact make it a condition of TT acceptance by the devs.I'm sure I won't be the last WTT developer to suggest that if you would like to see more timetables released for the sims you manage to play, then think before you post such crap on this forum. My real life timetables are what they are in reality. I accept that you may consider yourself to be living outwith the bounds of 'reality'. For the majority of us I do try and produce timetables which are easy or intermediate as well as advanced; But I don't have any time for those who aren't bothered to slow down, to learn or appreciate the simulations, or timetables fully, only to pick holes and seek shortcuts for every feature. As has been said, other simulation software is available. Otherwise, show a bit more respect. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: larsht, GoochyB, flabberdacks, BarryM, Dick, Noisynoel, TimTamToe, John, MikeW |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 19:01 #68807 | |
Dick
387 posts |
I really can't make up my mind about Max. Is he for real or just a clever troll winding everybody up?
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| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 19:13 #68809 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
" said:The only timetable I have an interest in is the one I issue with the Sim: timetables made by others are made available as-is and as a developer of the Sim I'm disinterested. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 19:50 #68811 | |
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slatteryc
254 posts |
I was about to ask the same question, is he real or is it a sock puppet. In any event I am considering that designing and executing a timetable that accurately runs and reflects real life, with no user/signaller inputs is a: effing gigantic amount of work b: not a simulation of reality ! Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 19:59 #68813 | |
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Ron_J
331 posts |
I tell you what, if you manage to create a program that runs the railway entirely automatically without any human intervention please let Network Rail know because they're currently looking at ways of dramatically reducing their wage bil...
Log in to reply The following user said thank you: larsht |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 04/02/2015 at 20:07 #68814 | |
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Jersey_Mike
250 posts |
" said:I was about to ask the same question, is he real or is it a sock puppet.Like I said...Amtrak Northeast Corridor - Section 3: RAGAN to GUNPOW, second shift weekends. Baring any anomalies you can replace the game with a YouTube video. :lol: In another real life example, the local commuter agency SEPTA, purchased a spiffy new dispatch system with automatic routing. However the system was designed for rapid transit use and the on time performance plummeted from 95% to 80% because the automatic routing would not line a route at junctions until a train was practically on top of it. To avoid looking like they just wasted a ton of money for a broken feature, SEPTA management forbade the dispatchers from setting routs manually. The software was eventually improved, but dispatchers are still not allowed to turn the system off. Last edited: 04/02/2015 at 20:07 by Jersey_Mike Log in to reply |
| Look Ma - SimSig no hands 05/02/2015 at 00:06 #68821 | |
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maxand
1637 posts |
Well! I'm glad this has provoked such a robust feedback (as our current PM would say) that some are questioning whether I might even be a troll or sock puppet in disguise. I'm neither, I'm just as dedicated as the rest of you to making SimSig a more user-friendly game/sim, particularly from the POV of the man-in-the-street sitting down to play it for the first time (what Jakob Nielsen, Steve Krug and others term usability). If some of you think I'm trying to wind you up, no, I choose my words carefully and am trying to make you all think a bit more about what SimSig actually is, how it plays and maybe how it should be. This after all is a forum. Just to turn everything on its head once again, the more I study the actual program, the more it seems that the elephant in the room is really the fact that, at its inception, no one had the distant foresight to build what could be termed Automatic/Autonomous/Learner/Demo/Continuous running mode into each and every sim. Of course, sims were all pre-loader then, so there was little core code to require only one new [set of code objects] to be created and make it all uniform. But I'm just presenting this so future generations of coders can take note. Whether or not in loader core code and/or built into each sim's code should be the ability to run at least one demo TT fully autonomously. Doing this would avoid the need for every TT writer to revise his/her code, but it would help to bring older pre-loader TTs into line with the latest loaders and should be insisted upon. I feel that the person who writes the "default" TT accompanying each new sim should also write a maybe shorter demo TT running only 3-4 hours but which includes as many as possible reversing points and methods of accomplishing movements, so should be frequently updated as others write new TTs for this sim, without paying too much attention to historical accuracy. As I stated earlier, all loader sims should have ARS-LIKE properties to allow continuous demo running, hidden by default if not historically accurate. One way to do this is to completely enable ARS for ALL loader sims for ALL train classes so the person learning the sim knows how to turn it on when needed when running a demo TT. In fact, I bet this will happen as time passes. The difficult we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer. I would like to see full ARS in Royston, for example. Steamer wrote in post #9: Quote: Southampton is scrolly but doesn't have ARS any more. That's what I seem to remember too. Pity, Ah well, scrub Southampton till it does. Nice sim otherwise. Steamer also wrote in post #9: Quote: I honestly think PC-Rail is the game for you. They have a dedicated team which tests all submitted timetables and makes sure they can be run pretty much perfectly. However, you will find yourself paying £5 to £10 per timetable for the privilege. Not by the way our $AU is heading and I am now capable of writing very simple TTs on my own now (for my own pleasure, no peeking yet). Also I regard their screens and whole layout as a bit toylike and AFAIK no one outside their team can meddle with their TTs, though there seems to be a good how-to guide which for me implies a new learning curve. No thanks. RonJ opined in post #11: Quote: One thing to bear in mind is that even in real life the timetable frequently just doesn't work. Signallers can't just blindly follow the timetable; they have to make adjustments and decisions as they go along. Despite your lengthy rambling explanations I simply cannot see the attraction of watching the simulation play itself. What's the point of that? That's certainly the real life end of the spectrum and I respect your view and that of everyone else here who follows it. However, I also think it's unfair on newcomers to a particular sim to try to piece it all together, particularly the locations and routing methods of some timing and reversing points that aren't well explained at all either in the sim manual or on the forum. Thus I feel a shorter demo TT for each, clearly marked as such, allowing ARS to be fully turned on, would be much more helpful. Now, since I am not a developer, it's not my place to request that an ARS-LIKE continuous running mode be created as well as equipping all sims with ARS. Would it simply be enough to do the latter, so that full ARS is the total extent? It would make sense not to re-invent the wheel. Truthfully I'm quite satisfied with what I can achieve with full ARS in Swindon A&B, noting I just have to be careful to keep an eye at where trains pass/stop at some locations such as Didcot Parkway and its North/East/West area labels, as explained in the manual. This would not be a problem at, say, Royston. What's the fun of watching the simulation play itself? 1) the apprehensive newcomer can confirm that this is indeed possible, much as a little child can enjoy seeing a train run around a model track without needing intervention. 2) If a TT doesn't play smoothly, the user can always revert to trying the same location using a well-documented, shorter demo TT (starting at a particular time), if reading the manual for that particular doesn't set him/her straight. Trawling through the forum using its inadequate search engine to find an answer is no help at all, I've discovered. Indeed, the attractiveness of payware sims could be improved so the the whole sim plays free of charge for the shorter duration (say 3 hours) of the demo TT only (do I hear a cash register ringing somewhere?). In any demo TT, the use of partial or complete ARS should be made completely optional, the more so if in real life the area is not equipped (yet) with ARS. After all, just about all decent sims have full TORR, but seldom is it able to be turned off. How inaccurate is that? As stated by me earlier, full ACI should also be enabled at least for a demo TT. Hooverman wrote in post #12: Quote: Thinking of real life timetables that don't work, London Bridge Low Level (Central side) post Christmas layout change springs to mind. To which I could add Chicago Loop and Wembley Suburban, as stated in their manuals. So why have them at all? That puts me right off without even trying them, though I must admit I enjoy Wembley Suburban as it all fits on one page and don't care if I feel demoralized every time I check my score on it. So what's the cure? Simply create a shorter, demo TT that does work at 1:1 speed. Personally I dislike having to slow a sim down to 75% speed or slower, just to clear up blockages. I'd rather put most of it on full ARS while I move from one problem area to another - that's another reason I enjoy Swindon over most others. KymristaDraken wrote in post #15: Quote: A wise man in Bristol panel once said that the railway was very much like a game of chess, in that you can get snookered quite easily. I have no idea how one can get snookered playing chess, unless one is dextrous enough to be able to play both games simultaneously. Unless a TT is written with malicious intent, this shouldn't occur in SimSig, certainly not with a demo TT. Peter Bennet wrote in post #21: Quote: The only timetable I have an interest in is the one I issue with the Sim: timetables made by others are made available as-is and as a developer of the Sim I'm disinterested. I'm disappointed that you don't express greater interest in my suggestion, but knowing how busy you must be, it's understandable. Nevertheless, if all your sims are eventually upgraded to full ARS then I hope you may feel the need to update your default TT accordingly while leaving the production of a shorter demo TT to someone else. Log in to reply |