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| Hot Boxes? 01/03/2010 at 16:45 #792 | |
afro09
167 posts |
Hello again to all the Development team, I also was thinking, an good addition to current delays and failures would be the addition of 'hot boxes' not sure what they are called in the UK. They measure the temperature of each boggie as it passes over it. could it be programmed that the 'hot box' is set off randomly with the train then having to stop and be delayed at that position for say 10 mins while the driver and gaurd do a walk around inspection of there train. Then in the future if failed trains have to be replaced on occasions, this can be adapted that the driver will inform the signaller either, 1. 'I have inspected my train and everything is ok' and the signaller would respond with 'Ok continue working' or 2. 'After inspecting my train there is an extremly hot boggie' and the signaller would respond with 'Work the train to the next station where it will be replaced by a new set'. Alan. Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 01/03/2010 at 16:45 #7032 | |
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afro09
167 posts |
Hello again to all the Development team, I also was thinking, an good addition to current delays and failures would be the addition of 'hot boxes' not sure what they are called in the UK. They measure the temperature of each boggie as it passes over it. could it be programmed that the 'hot box' is set off randomly with the train then having to stop and be delayed at that position for say 10 mins while the driver and gaurd do a walk around inspection of there train. Then in the future if failed trains have to be replaced on occasions, this can be adapted that the driver will inform the signaller either, 1. 'I have inspected my train and everything is ok' and the signaller would respond with 'Ok continue working' or 2. 'After inspecting my train there is an extremly hot boggie' and the signaller would respond with 'Work the train to the next station where it will be replaced by a new set'. Alan. Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 01/03/2010 at 17:17 #7036 | |
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kbarber
1743 posts |
AFIAA hot boxes are almost unknown on passenger trains. Thankfully! Freights are a different matter, although the advent of roller bearings has made them very much rarer. HABDs are located at rather long intervals, often some way on the approach side of a tunnel or some such (where a derailment would be particularly problematic - think Summit Tunnel!) and usually with a loop or siding between them & the hazard. An example was on the Up roads somewhere around Hemel Hempsted (may even have been further out) on the West Coast Main Line. There was an instruction at Watford Powerbox that if the HABD was activated, the train concerned must be put into Kings Langley loop and not allowed to proceed through Watford Tunnel until it had been examined by the guard; after examination it was then required to proceed cautiously to Willesden, where of course there were C&W examiners & the possibility of detaching the affected vehicle(s). Could certainly add to the interest :-) Edited to add: the train would not normally be stopped immediately, every effort would be made (& facilities would be provided) to do the exam clear of running lines. And I think I'm right in saying that most hot boxes were perfectly fit to be worked forward at caution; something unfit to go forward would result in the train being imobilised for several hours then worked forward with a wheelskate (walking pace I think the instructions said) - that sounds more like one for Kurt to program. Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 01/03/2010 at 21:19 #7041 | |
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TomOF
452 posts |
Certainly not a bad idea. On some workstations the HABDs are handled on an external panel and don't do anything on the signallers screen, some do. The splitting of the train and subsequent rescue of the defective vehicle might be the tricky part to code. Also there are local box instructions dealing exactly where a train should be stopped and divided in the event of a hot box. Anyway, heres a picture of a HABD in a forthcoming simulation (but more of that later - it's not something I'm ready to reveal right now) . Their appearance vary from workstation to workstation. P.S - I should probably add this a static indicator Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 01/03/2010 at 22:18 #7045 | |
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daza7789
59 posts |
Hi all This would be an intresting feature, however would be incredibly compicated to program. unfortunatly activations of lineside hot axle box detectors (HABDs) are not as straight forward as discussed. section 18 of module TW5 explains http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule%20Book%20Modules/TW%20-%20Train%20Working/GERT8000-TW5%20Iss%203.pdf And furthermore the signaller would have an awful lot of dealings with control in this situation, with regards to arranging fitters, detatchments etc. Also note that control must be told immidiatly when the HABD has activated, to enable them to find out if dangerous goods are in transit. The affected train Must be stoped immediatly, also trains on adjacent lines. Obviously as Kbarber states some locations do have signal box special instructions regarding HABDs, but the general instruction aplies otherwise. Daz Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 01/03/2010 at 23:10 #7047 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
It's something I thought about several years ago, setting a random detection was the easy bit- working out what to do next and how was beyond me so I moved switly on. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 01/03/2010 at 23:32 #7048 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
Possible idle thought: How easy would it be to incorporate a facility for a host/server to (temporarily) set a reduced maximum speed for a train? My thinking is that in multiplayer the host could pose a scenario for clients to deal with appropriately, manipulating the speed of the train to suit. Could cover hot boxes. loss of power and other problems. I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 02/03/2010 at 02:57 #7050 | |
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afro09
167 posts |
Alot of you are missing the orriginal suggestion here, there was never mention of spliting trains or removing coachs. So to Repeat my suggestion again. When a train runs over a hot axel box detector, the sim decides to set it off or not in the same way it delays trains because of tech problems/wrong food trolley/pax disturbances. if the HABD is not set of trains continues as normal, If the HABD is set off, the train is delayed at that spot for ten mins to be inspected then continues on working. Then when Sims develope further in the future, this can also be developed further. Alan. Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 02/03/2010 at 11:03 #7051 | |
DriverCurran
688 posts |
Alan Not sure how the HABDs work in the ROI. afro09 said: If the HABD is set off, the train is delayed at that spot for ten mins to be inspected then continues on working.On the lines that I used to work over in Kent prior to transferring depots that had HABDs the first that we would know of the activation would be when the signaller stopped us on the first convient signal either by emergency replacement or by normal controlled signal. We had no direct indication of the activation in our cab unless advised by our conductor should there be a major hot box. Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 02/03/2010 at 11:23 #7052 | |
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razgriz33
42 posts |
yeah alan's reminder of the suggestion, simplicity is key if you can get it working like that then you could think about develloping it further, walk before you run type thing fellas
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| Hot Boxes? 02/03/2010 at 13:54 #7055 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts 
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Again it's a case of it boiling down to what is simulating the signallers responsibility and what isn't. There are elements of signaller responsiblity in dealing with HABD (and the similar WILD) but activations are rare and probably best dealt with by host creating the scenario, rather than directly coding it into the sim. Another consideration is that there would, if the feature was implemented, be an expectation for HABDs to pop up wherever they are located in real life, which will mean further ammendments to existing sims, which detracts from those which are already work in progress.
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| Hot Boxes? 02/03/2010 at 17:10 #7056 | |
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afro09
167 posts |
DriverCurran said:AlanPaul, If a HABD is set off by a train over here, the signaller would contact the driver using the train radio and reqest that he stop and inspect his train and the signaller would make sure the sector the train is in, is fully protected. Alan. Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 02/03/2010 at 17:49 #7057 | |
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kbarber
1743 posts |
afro09 said:DriverCurran said:AlanIf a HABD is set off by a train over here, the signaller would contact the driver using the train radio and reqest that he stop and inspect his train and the signaller would make sure the sector the train is in, is fully protected. This could lead to complications where historic timetables (or layouts if that's a sim option) are in use. On the mainland train - shore radio certainly wasn't available in the mid-'80s (apart from Bedford - St Pancras, in connection with Driver Only Operation, and in RETB areas). It was beginning to come in by the late '80s but with gaps in coverage. It also used to be the case that use was not permitted while a train was in motion (emergency stop instructions being the obvious exception, but I'm not sure when that facility became available); it may be that it still isn't (I'm sure someone on here knows). So on the railway I knew it would definitely be a case of signalman putting back in front of the activating train. Of course if the HABD was in an auto section the first possible signal to put back might be some way ahead, in addition to which it was common to say that trains should not be brought to a sudden stand (so choose a signal that wouldn't give an adverse change of aspect). (Remember the 1980s railway still had quite a few old fashioned journal bearings running around; they ran hot with enormous regularity but one of them will travel a good few miles "hot" without trouble. A roller bearing, on the other hand, rarely gives trouble but when it runs hot it needs stopping pretty much immediately.) Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 06/03/2010 at 20:05 #7129 | |
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Matty
6 posts |
I'm also told that 153's tend to set some hot box detectors off quite often too!
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| Hot Boxes? 07/03/2010 at 12:49 #7138 | |
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ralphjwchadkirk
275 posts |
Simplicity but realistic is the way it should go. If HABD's are to be implemented, then there has to be a way of detaching vehicles, rescuing portions, putting blocks on lines for fitters to attend etc. Personally, I don't think it will add a lot to the sims, and isn't really worthwhile. Log in to reply |
| Hot Boxes? 11/03/2010 at 13:56 #7214 | |
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afro09
167 posts |
I know the last HABD set off over here was on the down line at the old Woodbrook station just outside Bray, by a GAA Special train going to wexford. It was a 071 class loco hauling a set of 6 craven coaches and a guards van, The second last coach had one of its boggies on fire and the last two coaches had to be left on the main road untill a loco from connolly ran out to pick them up.
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