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| Ghost Trains 27/07/2015 at 11:02 #74509 | |
Jersey_Mike
250 posts |
Are these included in SimSig timetables? http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150723-why-britain-has-secret-ghost-trains Two related questions about Ghost Trains themselves. First, while it is difficult to close a line, what about Temporarily Suspending Service due to let's say a maintenance issue for which there is no money to fix? My local commuter rail provider "temporarily" suspended service on three lines for a period of time now over 30 years. Usually the suspension would occur after a traction power substation or interlocking caught fire or the Federal inspectors declared the line unsafe. Second question is why Ghost Trains are needed to keep lines from entering a state of disrepair. See my previous question re maintenance and also would there be local goods traffic? Log in to reply |
| Ghost Trains 27/07/2015 at 11:53 #74511 | |
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Sacro
1171 posts |
An interesting 'article' where the person appears to have made up a term and then wondered why he can't find much information about them. There are a lot of 'parliamentary' services, but I think they're not even that any more, probably just franchise requirements, or for route learning/maintaining purposes. PSUL mentions similar things, as some travel rare bits of track. You can't suspend a service easily, you can make it a permanent bus however. I think Norton Bridge (Stafford SimSig) has gone that way, and Ealing Broadway - Wandsworth Road was a bus for many years. Snaith doesn't see a great amount of passenger traffic, but there's a fair bit of freight down that line. Might make an interesting sim... Log in to reply |
| Ghost Trains 27/07/2015 at 12:16 #74512 | |
pedroathome
916 posts |
As to you're first point, I'd suggest that if they are booked to run in a NR Timetable, then they will be in the data used for a SimSig timetable. For lines closed, but the track being left in place, an example of this which I can think of is the Portishead line, from Pill to Portishead. When the line was opened to Portbury, it looks as if the track was left, and just cut back. http://www.portisheadweb.org.uk/prg/Docks%20line%20junction.jpg Log in to reply |
| Ghost Trains 27/07/2015 at 12:22 #74513 | |
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Muzer
718 posts |
Ghost Trains isn't exactly a term made up by the creator of that article (it has been in use for quite a few years, along with "ghost station"), but it's not exactly well-defined, to put it mildly. These services are indeed in SimSig timetables. There's no difference between them and other regular service, except for the fact that there are very few of them. This is one reason they are hard to define. Temporarily suspending service is also something that happens. Have a look at Norton Bridge, Barlaston and Wedgwood stations for an example of this. Also see the Croxley Green branch until the early 2000s (the railway was still open, and alternative transport provided on request for the price of a normal ticket, despite there being a road built right through the trackbed...). Sometimes though it's useful to keep using the route for other reasons, for example route knowledge retention for diversions and in case of any future reinstatement of service. Usually these services use stock that is about to go onto, or has just come off, peak trains, so the cost increases are relatively marginal (no extra trains are required, staff probably have shift time left anyway, etc.). Re the maintenance question, simply using something is enough to ensure that it's kept maintained. Rail surfaces stay smooth and rust-free, and points are kept moving so they aren't likely to seize up. Any signalling failures will also be quickly noticed and dealt with. I suspect that running one train a week and otherwise keeping the usual maintenance schedule is easier than trying to artificially recreate these conditions/this testing. I might be wrong about this, though. Log in to reply |
| Ghost Trains 27/07/2015 at 13:41 #74517 | |
Steamer
3986 posts 
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" said:Are these included in SimSig timetables?Unlike certain journalists, SimSig TT writers actually do proper research. These trains aren't 'hidden' at all, they appear in the national rail TT and in printed timetables, and also Real Time Trains. Often, they're tagged on to the timetable of a busier route. For instance, the Goole- Knottingley service featured in the article is included in this timetable. The timetable for Northern services on the Liverpool- Manchester via Warrington Central route also includes the four trains a day between Helsby and Ellesmere Port, and the one train a week from Chester to Runcorn via the Halton Curve. Quote: Two related questions about Ghost Trains themselves. First, while it is difficult to close a line, what about Temporarily Suspending Service due to let's say a maintenance issue for which there is no money to fix? My local commuter rail provider "temporarily" suspended service on three lines for a period of time now over 30 years. Usually the suspension would occur after a traction power substation or interlocking caught fire or the Federal inspectors declared the line unsafe.Often, the line is still used by freight traffic, or is useful for diversions, so Network Rail wouldn't want to close it anyway. The passenger trains are provided to avoid formally closing a line or station to passenger traffic. Another example: the line through Denton and Reddish South is used by freight, empty passenger trains and can be used as a diversionary route. Various reasons mean that a regular passenger service over the route is imparactical, so on Fridays one of the northbound empty passenger trains runs in service calling at the two stations. Due to the railway geography, running the train somwehere to drop the passengers off after Reddish adds significantly to the time the train takes to get to the depot, hence it only does it once a week. Quote: Second question is why Ghost Trains are needed to keep lines from entering a state of disrepair. See my previous question re maintenance and also would there be local goods traffic?That's likely to be an exaggeration on the part of the article writer. Most lines with an infrequent passenger service see equal, if not larger, amounts of freight traffic- see above. 'Local' goods traffic, in the UK sense (picking up/dropping off wagons at intermediate stations), ended in the 1960s. From a US perspective, you'd probably call most of our freight trains 'local'. " said: Temporarily suspending service is also something that happens. Have a look at Norton Bridge, Barlaston and Wedgwood stations for an example of thisTimetable enhancements made it difficult to path a stopping train. As such, the stations have been served by rail-replacement bus services for at least a decade. The lines through the stations are open and busy, but no train stops. There was a case where the withdrawl of cross-country services to Brighton meant that an obscure curve in London no longer saw passenger traffic. Therefore, a bus ran once a week between two stations in London that were connected by the curve. The curve still saw ECS and/or freight trains. "Don't stress/ relax/ let life roll off your backs./ Except for death and paying taxes/ everything in life.../ is only for now." (Avenue Q) Last edited: 27/07/2015 at 13:42 by Steamer Log in to reply |
| Ghost Trains 27/07/2015 at 13:55 #74521 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
This seems to be a story that does the rounds every now and again. I suspect it's the journalistic equivalent of sending a trainee for a tin of elbow grease. Odd that the ticket office clerk made the comment that they are creditied with "but the person at the ticket desk still hadn’t heard of it. “You must be mistaken,” he’d told her. “There is no train to Snaith.”, surely they would just have typed the station into the computer and printed the ticket. I suspect if she'd asked for a ticket to Sway at Leeds the ticket clerk would not have a clue where Sway was but she'd not have been told - "there are no trains to Swey". Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Ghost Trains 27/07/2015 at 15:30 #74522 | |
postal
5265 posts
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Going off at a slight tangent, the website "Passenger Train Services over Unusual Lines" contains current and historical data going back well into SimSig heritage TT territory listing routes which see only a handful of trains. There is some fascinating stuff for those whose interests lie in that direction. “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: NCC1701 |
| Ghost Trains 27/07/2015 at 23:34 #74538 | |
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bill_gensheet
1417 posts |
The older PSUL are quite something and it is good that the whole set are now available. I get a few journo enquirers on the 'ghost train' subject through Gensheet. Bill Log in to reply |
| Ghost Trains 28/07/2015 at 15:33 #74554 | |
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Hooverman
306 posts |
Down our way we refer to ghost trains, as the trains that we run through night to keep the conductor rail from freezing or free of ice, usaully a 12 or 8 car set running up and down between 1am and 4am
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