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| IECC Possessions 18/12/2015 at 23:04 #78937 | |
2W34
58 posts |
Hello folks Having purchased the new Leeds sim (didn't that come unexpectedly?!) I am wanting to recreate the real way a signaller will take a line blockage (are they not called possessions anymore?) for the following situations: Track Litter Pick Track Inspection Track Renewal Heavy plant/engineers train renewal When I last looked into it everything was under the old T2 T3 system. Looking at opentraintimes the signallers just seem to interpose NOGO into the berths now? So can one of you informed people please tell me, in as much detail as possible, how to recreate this (quite substantial!) part of the signallers role today. Thank you in advance. Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 19/12/2015 at 08:34 #78944 | |
KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
You can use the Incident Control Panel (F11) to add isolations of various types to individual track sections. I suspect that IRL the Signalman would do this, place a reminder on the entrance and exit signals, as well as any signals giving access to the middle of the route, lock and collar the points, and probably use the TD "NOGO" "*T3* or whatever to remind him what the posession is for. I'm fairly sure that the use of reminders (and possibly isolation markers) are required by the Rule Book, but the TD use is almost certainly unofficial. Kev Log in to reply The following user said thank you: 2W34 |
| IECC Possessions 19/12/2015 at 17:16 #78990 | |
DriverCurran
688 posts |
Well if you run Oxted using the 15th October 2009 scenario then you will have to grant and receive back a proper possession  Paul You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Last edited: 19/12/2015 at 18:25 by DriverCurran Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 19/12/2015 at 18:16 #78994 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
" said:Well if you run Oxted using the 15th October 2009 scenario then you will have to grant and surrender a proper possessionSurely the PICOP surrenders the possession rather than the Signalman? Kev Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 19/12/2015 at 18:25 #78995 | |
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DriverCurran
688 posts |
Now sorted
You have to get a red before you can get any other colour Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 20/12/2015 at 11:24 #79013 | |
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Hooverman
306 posts |
" said:When I last looked into it everything was under the old T2 T3 system. Looking at opentraintimes the signallers just seem to interpose NOGO into the berths now?.The old T2 and T12 were combined to become the new LB (rule book TS1 13.2) and T3 is still T3 for total possessions of the line. What we signallers writes in the TD berths if at all, is up to us as we see fit and you will see some great combination of four letter shorthand. But alas since the days of CCF and other industrial links to our TDs it has had to be toned down, even more so since the greater public can also see what we write. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: 2W34 |
| IECC Possessions 20/12/2015 at 11:56 #79014 | |
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peterb
452 posts 
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" said:What we signallers writes in the TD berths if at all, is up to us as we see fit and you will see some great combination of four letter shorthand. But alas since the days of CCF and other industrial links to our TDs it has had to be toned down, even more so since the greater public can also see what we write.On the subject of this, it might be box/signaller specific but I occasionally see signallers interpose the platform number into the berth, for example -P1-. Any motive behind this? Possibly as a reminder for where to route trains? Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 21/12/2015 at 00:15 #79033 | |
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Hooverman
306 posts |
" said:" said:Can't really say on that. But quite often we've used to put codes in like P3P7 meaning platform 3 to platform 7 shunt etc etc. But with GSM-R you need the correct code in the berth for the driver to set up compared to the old CSR where you could have a partial setup. But apart from the train ID and things like *S**, *P** or *G** for Shunt, Pilot and Gullet (at my location), there are no other official codes to put in the TD berths.What we signallers writes in the TD berths if at all, is up to us as we see fit and you will see some great combination of four letter shorthand. But alas since the days of CCF and other industrial links to our TDs it has had to be toned down, even more so since the greater public can also see what we write.On the subject of this, it might be box/signaller specific but I occasionally see signallers interpose the platform number into the berth, for example -P1-. Any motive behind this? Possibly as a reminder for where to route trains? Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 21/12/2015 at 17:39 #79059 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
Regarding train describer berths... A signaller has free reign to put whatever they want to in the berth as a reminder that there is a blockage of the line in place. With the introduction of a "Line Blockage" (rather that a T2/T12) some people might use '-LB-', but some won't put anything in the berth; they will just use the relevant reminder appliances on their panel/workstation/lever frame/whatever. I have seen 'LBSP' for "Line Blockage with Signal Protection only" used on Three Bridges ASC's patch. Basically, whatever floats your boat. With possessions one might see '-T3-', perhaps even 'IT10' for "Item 10", the item number as published in the Weekly Operating Notice (WON). But, again, the signaller might leave the berth(s) completely blank. When they were doing the North London Line remodelling in spring 2010, three adjacent berths has 'SHUT' '-TIL' 'JUNE' in them for the duration of the work. In other circumstances other useful words/phrases might be used. 'NOGO' is something I have seen used to remind another signaller not to route towards an incident that is happening elsewhere in the signal box or at an adjacent box, a bit like the 'BLOK' code from certain SimSig simulations' entry points. It is never nice to sign on duty and see things like 'TREE' or 'FIRE' in a berth. I once wrote '*SEW' 'AGE*' 'LEAK' in adjacent berths when there were some leaking pipes in the roof above platform 19 at Victoria. Regarding setting up and granting a blockage of the line... The majority of requests to block a line come from someone out on the track, be it station staff, incident response staff or for planned engineering works. There are usually forms to fill in to confirm all the details about who is taking the block, where exactly they are, what protection they need and how long they need it for for. Some blockages are pre-planned, like litter clearance or engineering works, whereas others are last-minute requirements, such as retrieving item(s) from the track at a station or protecting incident response staff trying to fix a failure. The amount of human interaction required when setting up these blockages make this difficult to simulate. As Far As I Know, only Mr Curran has managed to simulate a possession; on Oxted SimSig when running the 15th October 2009 ("Groundhog Day"  timetable.
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| IECC Possessions 21/12/2015 at 22:43 #79072 | |
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Essexgirl
42 posts |
When taking a Line Blockage in the IECC, the IWA/COSS/PC will call the signaller to discuss and agree the blockage (Name, telephone number, company, time required, any additional protection, which line to be block from where to where (giving point/signal numbers), protecting signals, and any other signal that will be maintained at danger to protect the area. Once this is done we end the call, and assuming we are in a position to grant the blockage we will turn ARS sub area off, put on a blue engineering overlay, reminders on signals, lock any points N or R as required, test our protection (try and clear signals into block area) turn ARS back on. We then telephone the IWA/COSS/PC back to test communications and also to confirm that the blockage is granted and issue an authority number. All this takes time, and it doesnt help when planners dont understand that although there might be 10 minutes between trains at point X, this doesnt mean there is 10 minutes available to work, as the blockage has to be given up in plenty of time to not slow down or stop the next train. Which usually means giving the blockage up when the train is 6 signal sections away as ARS (and us signallers) are supposed where possible have 2 green signals infront of any train, obviously not always possible, especially in the Leeds station area. As others have said, what is actually put into TD berths is dependant on which signaller is on the workstation. Personally I try and put something in, so that the dreaded delay clerks might not ring and ask why was such and such train delayed, and assign the signaller a dreaded OC TRUST delay code. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: 2W34 |
| IECC Possessions 21/12/2015 at 23:07 #79075 | |
ozrail
197 posts |
I would always put something in the Train Describer for my own reminder and so the Train Controller would see it on their display. Although it doesn't always go plan. One time station staff rang up to ask where train "CSB-" was going. CSB was NSW Railways T12.
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| IECC Possessions 22/12/2015 at 00:16 #79078 | |
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Ron_J
331 posts |
I never came across the practice of interposing anything other than a headcode into a berth when I was working in powerboxes in Scotland. It just wasn't done. Perhaps it's a geographical thing.
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| IECC Possessions 22/12/2015 at 10:29 #79085 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
" said:This of course assumes that the dreaded delay clerks are actually doing their job correctly and not just dumping the delay in the first available incident! The best bit is when they OD Control the delay despite the fact we have no knowledge involvement with it in the control! Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 22/12/2015 at 10:52 #79087 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
" said:I never came across the practice of interposing anything other than a headcode into a berth when I was working in powerboxes in Scotland. It just wasn't done. Perhaps it's a geographical thing.If you are on a panel you can use the high-technology magnet and/or bit of paper to remind you what is going on. At Bristol we had magnets with three dots to represent detonator protection, and the Signalman would often put the T3 form* on the panel, afixed by another magnet. It's not advisable to stick magnets on an IECC display :) * To save writing out the rather verbose T3 entry on the occurence sheet we used numbered forms that had the relevant paragraph from the Rule Book and, having filled that in, we'd just write "T3 form xxxx issued on the occurence sheet. Kev Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 29/12/2015 at 19:05 #79355 | |
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Essexgirl
42 posts |
Noisynoel OD delay....blimey you mean it actually gets used. I thought the default was OC Last edited: 29/12/2015 at 19:06 by Essexgirl Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 29/12/2015 at 20:10 #79361 | |
HST125Scorton
1191 posts
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I'm glad I came over this. During my last host of Stafford me and another member had a little opinions of how processions work. I for one have seen how there are dealt with in Preston PSB over 2015. P.S. I'm not a signaller like some are making out I am. I just have a couple of close friends who work in there. So during the sim I have the following -T3- Total Line Procession 1TRN First Train Reminder for Signallers basically reminding the signaller that the 'first' train after a previous procession. This is where a little bit of an argument with one saying "we don't use that as we never heard of it" or " 1TRN never heard of it been used" to be fair I know there in use like at current moment Preston PSB Panel C "Farington Jn to Up Main" has 1TRN after a recent procession after flooding during 26th/27th. So I ask has 1TRN been used before with other PSBs/IECCs? Aaron (AJRO) | Timetable Writer Log in to reply |
| IECC Possessions 30/12/2015 at 10:54 #79396 | |
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BoxBoyKit
166 posts |
I've never seen 1TRN be used, but myself and some colleagues use WFFT, aka Waiting For First Train. As I think others have said at the end of the day it's the Signallers workstation/panel/box and they can use whatever they like. I myself have also used post it notes on the box diagram at the NYMR during one of the steam galas a couple years back to aid in remembering what was parked where and in planning how to get whichever loco or set to its next train...
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| IECC Possessions 30/12/2015 at 15:11 #79407 | |
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KymriskaDraken
963 posts |
" said:I've never seen 1TRN be used, but myself and some colleagues use WFFT, aka Waiting For First Train. As I think others have said at the end of the day it's the Signallers workstation/panel/box and they can use whatever they like. I myself have also used post it notes on the box diagram at the NYMR during one of the steam galas a couple years back to aid in remembering what was parked where and in planning how to get whichever loco or set to its next train...Post It Notes are invaluable in a "real" panel box as well. Especially when the power fails and the standby jenny doesn't kick in. The TD berths go blank (as do the signals out on the ground, not to mention the indications on the panel all going blank) so all you can do is wait for everything to stop and call in, and then stick the post-it on the TD panel so that you know what's where when the sparks restore the juice. During the time when Bath Road depot was open we had small strip-magnets with Dymo tape on saying things like "Waker", "Cardiff", "Pompey", "Loco" and so on, so we'd remember in what order the shed was slinging stuff out at us. Kev Log in to reply |