Change of aspect penalty

2.9 Driver Keating was taking the 06:37 "empties" from Wimbledon Park to Waterloo. His recollection was that he had "all greens" from WF152 through WF148 to WF142 and that as he came to WF142 it changed from green to two yellows. When he came round the curve and was first able to see WF138 it was showing one yellow. The next signal WF47 was at green and thereafter he had greens all the way.

2.10 He had thought that for WF142 to change from green to double yellow was unusual but considered that the signalman might be sending his train into the loop platform at Clapham Junction, platform 7. The thought did not cross his mind that anything was wrong in any way with the signal and he did not consider any report about the signalling sequence to be justified. He said that there was nothing which put his or any other train in danger and therefore nothing to cause him the need to report to the singalman under the terms of the Rule Book.

2.38 Had any of the earlier drivers in fact made a report to the signalman about any signalling irregularity, it must be a matter of speculation what would then have occurred. The problem of hypothetical situations is that by their nature they admit of alternative hypotheses. I would find it difficult to believe that any such report would have prevented the accident. I consider that there woul have been insufficient time and insufficient understanding for the fault to have been identified and the appropriate action to have been taken of stopping all trains on the Up Main line.

Imagine barreling down the WCML at 125mph and sighting a green that becomes single yellow. Would the driver stop in time? Unlikely.

Just curious really. Wondering why a change to a more restrictive proceed aspect when a train is stationary invokes a penalty and phonecall. Surely if stopped, a proceed aspect is a proceed aspect regardless of colour and has no implications to the driver if it changes from green to yellow.

The penalty is because in reality, Drivers will generally report a change in aspect.

In severe cases, drivers have been shaken by the aspect change for fear of what may be ahead that caused a change.

A perfectly good example is in the vicinity of a bridge, the driver could fear that the bridge has collapsed and they won't stop before going over the edge. I use this in the case of recent weather issues where downpours or sea action has swept away the trackbed.

In your scenario, a driver at a station is perfectly within his rights to feel too shaken to continue and abandon the train where it is, therefore leaving the train standing where it is until a relief driver arrives. HUGE delays.

Signallers in real life are required to speak to the driver to receive confirmation that they are comfortable with the change in aspect (putting back the signal) BEFORE they do it.

As there isn't that option in Sims, you have to pay a penalty for doing so. It's also an encouragement to not clear the signal before time, before checking the timetable.

I've seen many a real-life signaller not check and get caught out clearing a signal early and having to call a driver up.
A good example is pressing the button on the adjacent platform in error rather than the one ringing out.

That isn't the scenario I am describing. The train is stopped at a green that has been given ahead of departure time. The dignaller cancels a route further ahead and the aspect changes to yellow. The train is still awaiting departure time and hasn't moved, all that has happened is his proceed aspect, when it is time to proceed, has changed to a more restrictive proceed aspect which he will obey right from departure..

This brings up having some sort of social feature in SimSig where you have some sort of karma rating with the drivers. If you have bad Karma the drivers will intentionally cause delays. If you have good karma they will move faster and help cover up delays. You earn karma by helping cover up SPAD's and platform overshoots or giving certain trains higher priority.

Maybe a new delay to be added to the list (Driver looking for a change of clothing) ?

Or as others have pointed out, as a signaller you do not know if a train is moving or not untill it occupies the next track circuit or passed a timing point/sginal. What if the train is moving and its so close to the signal (or just inches past it) and the driver doesn't see the change of aspect?

In the absence of a native mechanism to speak with the driver and inform them of the need to take their signal away (and help cover up any signaler caused delay), I use the trick of instructing a train to reverse direction, change the signal, and then have it reverse back. All in all that's a pretty reasonable way to simulate drivers and signalers colluding.

This brings up having some sort of social feature in SimSig where you have some sort of karma rating with the drivers. If you have bad Karma the drivers will intentionally cause delays. If you have good karma they will move faster and help cover up delays. You earn karma by helping cover up SPAD's and platform overshoots or giving certain trains higher priority.

" said:

This brings up having some sort of social feature in SimSig where you have some sort of karma rating with the drivers. If you have bad Karma the drivers will intentionally cause delays. If you have good karma they will move faster and help cover up delays. You earn karma by helping cover up SPAD's and platform overshoots or giving certain trains higher priority.

That would certainly increase the realism of any timetable set before the 1990s!

As Splodge mentioned earlier, you can't just change trains' directions willy-nilly any more. There is a minimum 1 minute "penalty" while the driver changes ends. I would make it 2 or more but more people would complain. However, more than 10 minutes before departure time and any aspect changes will be ignored. You win some, you lose some .

One thought that strikes me here is that, in certain locations, change of direction could - legitimately - be almost instant.

So is there a case for allowing devs to specify a non-standard reversing time at certain signals?

If I reverse then reverse back does that reset the clock or add to it?