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| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 28/01/2016 at 19:55 #80175 | |
58050
2659 posts |
The King's Cross 1985-1986 timetable I have been working on for some time now is currently being made ready for release. Due to the non availability of those users who assisted in the testing of this timetable I've made the decision along with AndyG & BarryM to release this timetable this evening. The timetable is currently being put together along with the timetable notes ready for forwarding for moderator approval. Attached with this post is a .PDF document of the timetable notes if anyone wants to downloads & look through it. It will give you some idea what you'll be up against. Once the timetable has been released if anyone wants to ask anything then please post on this thread. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Lyn-Greenwood, RainbowNines, TimTamToe, CTCThiago |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 28/01/2016 at 20:02 #80176 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
 Picture taken from the footbridge at Hornsey station back in 1986 shows lines of Cl.313 units stabled at Hornsey EMU Depot. This photo should at least give you some flavour of the period the timetable is set in. Post has attachments. Log in to view them. Log in to reply The following users said thank you: CTCThiago, BarryM |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 28/01/2016 at 20:29 #80179 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
King's Cross 1985-1986 timetable has been sent for moderator approval.
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| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 28/01/2016 at 21:08 #80180 | |
headshot119
4869 posts |
And is now available here.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Last edited: 28/01/2016 at 21:08 by headshot119 Log in to reply The following users said thank you: CTCThiago, BarryM, TimTamToe, 58050 |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 29/01/2016 at 00:27 #80187 | |
RainbowNines
272 posts |
3 hours in Pascal and it's everything I expected and more - challenging and keeps you on your toes as a solo player even through the early hours. Can't wait for the morning peak!
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| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 29/01/2016 at 09:46 #80191 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
Thanks Pascal for what I feel will be a great and challenging tt and thanks Karl, for one of the quickest approvals I've seen. On the negatives, you all will be waiting longer for the timetables I'm writing, as this KX will become quite a major distraction :whistle: Gareth Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 29/01/2016 at 11:03 #80192 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
I've just checked the timetable notes & I've missed one very important issue when starting a new game. To avoid getting a 'ACOA' at Langley Junction IT IS VERY IMPORTANT YOU START THE GAME PAUSED & then cancel the route between K.656 signal & K.652 signal on the Up Slow Line. This is due to the sim not having the option like West Hampstead whereby you can either set the main line routes on or off when starting. 5A47 (seed) 1800 SX ECS Clifton Car. M.D. - Ferme Park RS (IM Cl.31/1+CAR+8/Cl.317+CAR) runs via Hertford North. Incidentally the word 'CAR' on several of the EMU drag movements refers to the BR brake van acting as match wagons with a screw coupling on the outer ends & buckeye coupling on the inner ends. Back in 1986 I was second man on a move from Cricklewood T&RSMD - Wolverton Works dragging an 8 car Cl.317 hauled by a Cl.45/1 throughout & a CAR brake van each end of the unit. So I used the same consist types for these trains in this timetable.
Log in to reply The following users said thank you: Lyn-Greenwood, CTCThiago |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 29/01/2016 at 14:22 #80194 | |
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GoochyB
222 posts |
I've just started this and it is looking fantastic so far. Massive thank-yous to all. My run started as a Monday, and I got two versions of the same train seeding at start up, which looks like it needs a rule. 5Y96SMX (described as 2315 FX, so should probably appear for T W Th F [& Su], as per its ID), and 5Y96SMO (described as 2330 SUN, which would mean it should appear M) Operationally it's no problem, they can be sent to BN one after the other, but if you are tweaking the TT then a rule probably needs adding for 5Y96SMX must not run if 0A00MON runs. Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 29/01/2016 at 14:26 #80195 | |
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slatteryc
254 posts |
what version is needed to run this, Classic or Loader
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| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 29/01/2016 at 14:27 #80196 | |
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headshot119
4869 posts |
Loader in the old era.
"Passengers for New Lane, should be seated in the rear coach of the train " - Opinions are my own and not those of my employer Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 29/01/2016 at 15:22 #80197 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
GoochyB wrote Quote: I've just started this and it is looking fantastic so far. Massive thank-yous to all. Hmmm OK looks like your right a rule missing, so I've added a rule. As a quick fix those of you up to adding a new rule try this: Train 5Y96SMX Must Not Run If Train 0A00MON runs Hopefully that will resolve the issue. Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 30/01/2016 at 22:17 #80253 | |
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RainbowNines
272 posts |
Pascal, 0B03MX - its description says it's a LD shunt P1 to P8, but the TT for it sends it to Ferme Park. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: 58050 |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 31/01/2016 at 10:19 #80258 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
RainbowNines wrote: Quote:
Thanks for that, anoother one that slipped through the net.+ I've corrected it to show the loco is bound for Ferme Park RS. For all of those who have downloaded this timetable you can edit the train description for this loco to show it as:- 0350 MX LD King's Cross - ferme Park RS Fingers crossed there won't be anymore issues raised. Otherwise you can blame the testers for being half asleep whilst testing this timetable. :doh Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 13:38 #80319 | |
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Javelin395
272 posts |
Hi Pascal, Another great timetable mate. I have a query for you with regards 5B53. This train is shown as a shunt from Hitchin Down Yd to Hitchin P2 but I think it may have a location missing unless I'm being a numpty... Hitchin Up Yd 10:20 Hitchin P1 10/22 Hitchin South (reverse) arr 10:23 dep 10:26 Hitchin P2 arr 10:28 N: 2B53 I suspect it needs the location Hitchin North (reverse) adding as there is no direct route from Hitchin South (reverse) into Hitchin P2. Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 13:55 #80320 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Javelin395 wrote: Quote:
AndyG told me about this the other day & I was rather hoping I'd got away with it. Now you've reported it obviously not. I did look at altering this move to come out of the Up Yard bia the north end & reverse directly into P2 at Hitchin as 2B53 is booked to depart at 1030, so adding in the Hitchin north(reverse) wouldn't really work. Tricky one is this as 2R06 on the Down departs Hitchin P2 at 10.26 bound for royston. So that can't happen. So the only alternative left is to add in a Hitchin north(reverse) timing point & possibly re-time the entry time from the Up Yard so it doesn't get in the way of anything. I'll get back to you shortly with an answer. Log in to reply The following user said thank you: Javelin395 |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 14:07 #80322 | |
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Javelin395
272 posts |
Sorry buddy !! It takes me some time to work through things but I seem to have an annoying habit of picking up things that aren't quite right. Comes in useful in my day job as a research scientist though. Apologies I fell off the radar with some testing I'd agreed to do for you. Something cropped up in my personal life (will PM you when I can find the time). Rest assured that's not how I normally behave !! Javelin Log in to reply The following user said thank you: TimTamToe |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 14:12 #80323 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
I think the simplest way round this issue & for all those who are playing this timetable can do the following alterations this should cure this particular issue. you need to edit the following train:- 5B53 10+20 EWD ECS Shunt Hitchin Up Yard - P2 (CA 3/Cl.101) UID: $5B53A The entry time for this train needs changing to 10:16 & the following locations have the following times:- Hitchin pass. 10/17 P1 Hitchin South(reverse) arr. 10:18 dep. 10:20 (2 minutes to change ends) Hitchin pass. 10/21 Hitchin North(reverse) arr. 10:22 dep. 10.26 Hitchin arr. 10:28 P1 N: 2B53 There is also a rule that needs amending. The rule is 5B53a must not enter until 19 minutes after 5B53 leaves the area. Change the number of minutes from 19 to 15 so the train will enter at 10:16 from the Up Yard. I'm hoping most people should be able to do these edits, if not I'll send an updated timetable for moderator approval which will replace the one currrently up for downloading. Unless that is anyone else has any issues to report. Last edited: 03/02/2016 at 14:14 by 58050 Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 14:29 #80325 | |
postal
5265 posts |
" said:There is also a rule that needs amending. The rule is 5B53a must not enter until 19 minutes after 5B53 leaves the area. Change the number of minutes from 19 to 15 so the train will enter at 10:16 from the Up Yard.I am always in a quandary when it comes to rules like this. In the SimSig world, if 5B53 was late in entering the sim (presumably the result of an inward Class 2 working arriving late) then the 15 minute block before 5B53A enters is probably forcing the next Class 2 working to depart late. In the real world, I presume that if 5B53 arrived into the Up Yard, then as soon as the driver had done whatever needed to be done (change ends or whatever) he would be ready to move and that might take a good bit less than the 15 minutes ordained by the SimSig TT rule. This could bring the diagram back to scheduled time which would hopefully be the aim in real life. In circumstances like that, would the TT be more realistic if the rule was set so that 5B53A should enter say 4 minutes after 5B53? That brings in the complication that the signaller may have to regulate things if 5B53A rings in early, but that could well be more realistic than the train waiting an arbitrary 15 minutes when it could have departed to time. Any thoughts? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Last edited: 03/02/2016 at 14:31 by postal Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 14:36 #80326 | |
Lyn-Greenwood
240 posts |
" said:I think the simplest way round this issue & for all those who are playing this timetable can do the following alterations this should cure this particular issue. you need to edit the following train:-I believe a typo has crept in here, Pascal. The last line of your amendment should read Hitchin P2, not P1. Great timetable, by the way. Lyn Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 14:51 #80327 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Thanks for that Lyn, yes should read P2 my mistake. With regards to Johns comments about the rule. IIRC there's nothing in the SimSig world that would govern the entry of the empty stock from Hitchin Up Yard even if the inwards was running late. In the real world subject to how late the inwards working was would determine whether the unit would even reverse into the Up Yard or would just run ECS to P2 via Hitchin south & north(reverse). If there was a way of reducing the amount of time a train remains off sim before it re enters & was also governed by whether the inwards train was on time or late would in effect make things a little bit more realistic. As it stands whatever time the inwards train leaves the sim the next working won't enter until after x minutes have elapsed. So if a train leaves the area 5 minutes late it would then re-enter the area 5 minutes late whereas in the real world the driver would eandeavour to make up some of the last time. the only other alternative is not to have a rule at all, but then you could get the situation whereby the next working could appear before the inwards working that forms it hasn't left the area yet. It's a case of 6 of one & half a dozen of another. Whenever I put these rules in I always sit there for a few minutes & think is it worth putting the rule in? Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 15:22 #80330 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
" said:Whenever I put these rules in I always sit there for a few minutes & think is it worth putting the rule in?Pascal We both know there has to be a rule to avoid a nonsense situation. However, I obviously haven't explained myself very well if you think I am proposing that we either have a rule linked to the scheduled dwell time or we have no rule. I am interested in the best balance between what SimSig allows and what would happen realistically. The key point is whether a re-entry rule should be mandated to apply to the scheduled dwell time off-sim which embeds any late running into the future workings in the diagram or whether some or all trains going off-sim at that point should only have a rule to keep them out of the way while the off-sim actions like changing ends take place. This would allow them to enter in a shorter time than the scheduled dwell so as to try and get back to time. It is not a criticism or a complaint because everyone has their own way of doing things but is there any feeling about what TT users would feel is the best compromise? “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 16:15 #80332 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
Well for me John I'd always choose the more realistic approach to what happens or happened in real life. In BR days everyone on the operating side would always try & keep things to time or if it was running late endeavor to make up lost time. In the traincrew world of BR especially on the freight side the earlier you could run the better as you'd get to book off duty sooner, but still get paid for your full shift. I'd prefer to go down the road of having a decision or s et of rules whereby if a train exited at a location within the confines of the sim albeit running late it could then be forced to re-enter on time whereby giving the impression that the staff manning the train or loco did endeavor to make up some of the lost time. The only other way round that would be not to have any rules governing the re-entry time & so the next working would always appear on time & the timetable writer could use the reason that due to late running of the inwards working another loco, unit or set was made available to step into the diagram. Something that did happen regularly in BR days.
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| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 16:19 #80333 | |
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JamesN
1608 posts |
" said:Well for me John I'd always choose the more realistic approach to what happens or happened in real life. In BR days everyone on the operating side would always try & keep things to time or if it was running late endeavor to make up lost time. In the traincrew world of BR especially on the freight side the earlier you could run the better as you'd get to book off duty sooner, but still get paid for your full shift. I'd prefer to go down the road of having a decision or s et of rules whereby if a train exited at a location within the confines of the sim albeit running late it could then be forced to re-enter on time whereby giving the impression that the staff manning the train or loco did endeavor to make up some of the lost time. The only other way round that would be not to have any rules governing the re-entry time & so the next working would always appear on time & the timetable writer could use the reason that due to late running of the inwards working another loco, unit or set was made available to step into the diagram. Something that did happen regularly in BR days.I think John's point is - the rule is coded to have the train sit in the yard for 19 (15 now) minutes. If the unit is just turning around then why isn't it just 4 or 5? Log in to reply The following users said thank you: TimTamToe, postal |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 16:26 #80334 | |
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TimTamToe
664 posts |
" said:" said:Hi JohnThere is also a rule that needs amending. The rule is 5B53a must not enter until 19 minutes after 5B53 leaves the area. Change the number of minutes from 19 to 15 so the train will enter at 10:16 from the Up Yard.I am always in a quandary when it comes to rules like this. In the SimSig world, if 5B53 was late in entering the sim (presumably the result of an inward Class 2 working arriving late) then the 15 minute block before 5B53A enters is probably forcing the next Class 2 working to depart late. In the real world, I presume that if 5B53 arrived into the Up Yard, then as soon as the driver had done whatever needed to be done (change ends or whatever) he would be ready to move and that might take a good bit less than the 15 minutes ordained by the SimSig TT rule. This could bring the diagram back to scheduled time which would hopefully be the aim in real life. Admittedly the tt's I write have far less rules needed due to them being of modern era and also without the fabulous detail of trip workings etc that Pascal has in, but I use a lot of dwell times and also refer to the rules of the route for min turnarounds. In similar situations of a unit going to sidings and then coming back for a later service then my rule would be the minimum turnaround allowances for the stock or location, with perhaps a minute here or there added in addition, which I think is more or less what you suggested. Depending on the sim, I do also use the rules so return trains can't enter until x after the previous service has left the area etc, usually based on if it was turned around early / run fast. In some sims I know this means due to tight turnarounds (especially Shepperton branch on Wimbledon / Feltham)the next train "in theory" can also enter late, it tends to be only when the lateness can either be made up through omitting stops in the signaller's control area, or that there is a long enough turnaround at one end to absorb the delay. eg on Wimbledon I have a rule that Reading trains return workings enter xx min after it's previous working leaves, but because of the long turnaround at Reading delays of up to 30 min (I think, can't remem exactly) are absorbed without the need for intervention I also thought that some rules only become applicable after the normal entry time had passed? So that train x due to enter at say 07:00 with an associated rule of must enter 10 min after train y leaves, would mean that train x would only be late entering if train y left after 06:51... Hope that is of some use and I haven't ended up being more confusing - easier to explain yet harder to type it out! Gareth Last edited: 03/02/2016 at 16:31 by TimTamToe Log in to reply The following user said thank you: postal |
| King's Cross 1985-1986 Timetable 03/02/2016 at 16:48 #80335 | |
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58050
2659 posts |
JamesN wrote: Quote: I think John's point is - the rule is coded to have the train sit in the yard for 19 (15 now) minutes. If the unit is just turning around then why isn't it just 4 or 5? James, the reason the unit doesn't turn around in 4 or 5 minutes as you say is because the unit forms the 1030 departure from Hitchin back to Peterborough & also for pathing purposes there isn't enough capacity for the unit to sit at Hitchin South(reverse) or Hitchin North(reverse) for the required amount of time necessary for the train to depart at 10.30. Furthermore Hitchin only having 2 platforms makes things slightly more complicated. Admitidly the ECS movements around Hitchin aren't in the WTT so it is down to the timetable writer to think what moves are open to clear P1 for other trains to stop there without having to divert trains off there booked routes. The Cl.2 services on the Up tend to run SL to Stevenage, the only exception of the semi fast Royston - KX services which run FL from Hitchin. I looked at what Kurt did in his 1985 KX timetable & I found that holding the unit at Hitchin South(reverse) technically blocked the Up Slow line until the unit would traverse the fast lines to get to Hitchin North(reverse) before rolling into P2 at Hitchin to pick up its next working, in this case 2B53 10.30 departure to Peterborough. Log in to reply |