Loader Update Issues - Solutions

The system files available via the website aren't always the latest version. In line with a lot of other software (Windows being a major example) the latest version is only available via an updater.

Nothing wrong with the principle but we see enough complaints on the Forum about problems with updating to make me wonder whether we've got the communications right. I haven't thought through how that might be managed but there does seem to be a generic problem.

postal in post 96256 said:

Nothing wrong with the principle but we see enough complaints on the Forum about problems with updating to make me wonder whether we've got the communications right. I haven't thought through how that might be managed but there does seem to be a generic problem.

Once people get up to 4.6.4 where it automatically checks if there's an update available and flashes at you I think we'll see a down turn in the number of people asking. Though I wonder if there's anything more we can do?

headshot119 in post 96257 said:

postal in post 96256 said:

Nothing wrong with the principle but we see enough complaints on the Forum about problems with updating to make me wonder whether we've got the communications right. I haven't thought through how that might be managed but there does seem to be a generic problem.

Once people get up to 4.6.4 where it automatically checks if there's an update available and flashes at you I think we'll see a down turn in the number of people asking. Though I wonder if there's anything more we can do?

A lot of existing users who have not updated tended to have 4.5.8 and eariler and not heeded advice to updte by downloading system files again due to and the latest are users not heeding the advice to run as administrator or downloading the system files from site again for certain versions prior to 4.6.3. (cannot remember versions off the top off my my head, but those are the 2 major reason for updates by users not going to plan

mark265 in post 96258 said:

headshot119 in post 96257 said:

postal in post 96256 said:

Nothing wrong with the principle but we see enough complaints on the Forum about problems with updating to make me wonder whether we've got the communications right. I haven't thought through how that might be managed but there does seem to be a generic problem.

Once people get up to 4.6.4 where it automatically checks if there's an update available and flashes at you I think we'll see a down turn in the number of people asking. Though I wonder if there's anything more we can do?

A lot of existing users who have not updated tended to have 4.5.8 and eariler and not heeded advice to updte by downloading system files again due to and the latest are users not heeding the advice to run as administrator or downloading the system files from site again for certain versions prior to 4.6.3. (cannot remember versions off the top off my my head, but those are the 2 major reason for updates by users not going to plan

I recall there was an issue with updating a version a while ago but I can't recall how I updated to 4.6.4 and how easy it was. Reading the above it seems to need actions beyond just clicking on update to get from 4.6.3 to 4.6.4. Should we have 4.6.4 as the one people will download, I presume thereafter it should update as one would expect?

Peter

The problem is how you cater for the paying customers who rarely visit the Forum, who are not interested in the under the bonnet workings and are still running on v4.5.8 or earlier because it works and they have had no reason to change. They make one of their rare visits to the site, see that there is a new sim they fancy and then are upset because it doesn't all fall into place in a seamless manner.

Do you take the view that it's hard lines and their own stupid fault, do you answer their irate comments through the Forum because they haven't seen or searched for the large volume of correspondence about this or do you try and take some sort of pre-emptive action to guide them through updating their system files if not running the latest version?

The problem is how you cater for the paying customers who rarely visit the Forum, who are not interested in the under the bonnet workings and are still running on v4.5.8 or earlier because it works and they have had no reason to change. They make one of their rare visits to the site, see that there is a new sim they fancy and then are upset because it doesn't all fall into place in a seamless manner.

Do you take the view that it's hard lines and their own stupid fault, do you answer their irate comments through the Forum because they haven't seen or searched for the large volume of correspondence about this or do you try and take some sort of pre-emptive action to guide them through updating their system files if not running the latest version?

How about adding a message to the product page that x simulation requires loader Vn.n.n or better . If your loader is older than this version pleas redownload the system files

I think the first thing to do is for someone to explain exactly what the problem is and the solution because I for one am totally confused just by this thread. Some people appear to have a problem, some say it's with this or that version, others that it's not, Win10 might be an issue, might not.

Only once we have a detailed understanding of the problem can we sort out a solution or write a step by step guide. Pondering the rights and wrongs does not really get us anywhere.

Peter

Peter Bennet in post 96271 said:

I think the first thing to do is for someone to explain exactly what the problem is and the solution because I for one am totally confused just by this thread. Some people appear to have a problem, some say it's with this or that version, others that it's not, Win10 might be an issue, might not.

Only once we have a detailed understanding of the problem can we sort out a solution or write a step by step guide. Pondering the rights and wrongs does not really get us anywhere.

Peter

Peter

There is a lot of comment in the topic but as far as I can understand from reading through the detail the only relevant point is about which version of the loader is used when the Check for Updates button is pressed. There is no case in this thread where the issue has not been resolved by moving to the latest version of the loader.

The Windows 10 point is a side issue which has arisen because there was an explanation that the loader had changed the way it worked because of the different way in which Windows 10 operated as compared with earlier versions. As with many other comments in this thread, this is just a side issue to the core problem of loader version. That is the issue where some people have not been aware of the changes and which has caused them problems.

Can we try and find a way of helping those people rather than wanting to over-analyse things to death and kick the problem into the long grass, please.

The issues I can remember are:

4.5.8 - There was a bug introduced that didn't shut down SimSigLoader.exe when the refresher launched, and the refresher then couldn't update the loader. You could close the loader down manually after launching the refresher, launch the refresher manually, or re-download the system files from the website.

There's been a later issue in the 4.6.X range where on some machines, the loader won't update because it doesn't have administrative privledges, Geoff has updated the refresher so it asks for these permissions. The choices are to right click and launch the loader in admin mode, or download the files from the website.

That's not the impression I get which is why I suggested we need to understand the exact problem and how it manifests itself.

Peter Bennet in post 96275 said:

That's not the impression I get which is why I suggested we need to understand the exact problem and how it manifests itself.

Peter

Which posts are driving that impression?

At it's simplest my questions are:
If someone has 4.5.8 what should they do?

If someone has 4.6.3 what should they do?

Peter

postal in post 96281 said:

Peter Bennet in post 96275 said:

That's not the impression I get which is why I suggested we need to understand the exact problem and how it manifests itself.

Peter

Which posts are driving that impression?

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96256
refers to a "generic problem"

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96257
says that getting to 4.6.4 resolves the problem but inference for good.

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96258 and
https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96260
refers to the administrator point still being a problem

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96274
Agrees that there is a problem but it's not a problem

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96278
Do you need admin privileges or just download the current system files 4.6.3 and update?

So I'm still unclear what the actual question is never mind the answer.

At it's simplest my questions are:
If someone has 4.5.8 what should they do?

If someone has 4.6.3 what should they do?

Peter

All of which problems are resolved in subsequent posts by using one of the two solutions suggested by Mark265.

So once again can I posit that the problem is a purely and simply a loader version issue. We cannot rely on users keeping their loaders up to date so we need to find some way to advise users with incompatible versions of the loader that they need to download and re-install. Please deconstruct that and tell me where I am missing the point.

On the other hand, if my reasoning is correct we need to advise users at the stage where they press the "Check for Updates" button that their loader is incompatible with the current updates and that they need to download and re-install from the web-site. As an alternative if the "Check for Updates" log shows some failures we need to give the same advice.

Or we can do nothing and get the same sort of correspondence on the Forum each time a new update is released. It's not my call but I know which is the most user-friendly option for those who use SimSig for enjoyment and are not into the technicalities of computers.

The trouble is that you can't add any message to the old loaders telling their users to redownload to get the update as their loader has no feature to display such a message, so their installation would have be updated to give such a message, at which point the user already has the up to date loader which can update itself and there is no longer (much) problem.

Peter Bennet in post 96283 said:

postal in post 96281 said:

Peter Bennet in post 96275 said:

That's not the impression I get which is why I suggested we need to understand the exact problem and how it manifests itself.

Peter

Which posts are driving that impression?

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96256
refers to a "generic problem"

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96257
says that getting to 4.6.4 resolves the problem but inference for good.

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96258 and
https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96260
refers to the administrator point still being a problem

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96274
Agrees that there is a problem but it's not a problem

https://www.SimSig.co.uk/Forum/PostView/96278
Do you need admin privileges or just download the current system files 4.6.3 and update?

So I'm still unclear what the actual question is never mind the answer.

At it's simplest my questions are:
If someone has 4.5.8 what should they do?

If someone has 4.6.3 what should they do?

Peter

All of which problems are resolved in subsequent posts by using one of the two solutions suggested by Mark265.

So once again can I posit that the problem is a purely and simply a loader version issue. We cannot rely on users keeping their loaders up to date so we need to find some way to advise users with incompatible versions of the loader that they need to download and re-install. Please deconstruct that and tell me where I am missing the point.

On the other hand, if my reasoning is correct we need to advise users at the stage where they press the "Check for Updates" button that their loader is incompatible with the current updates and that they need to download and re-install from the web-site. As an alternative if the "Check for Updates" log shows some failures we need to give the same advice.

Or we can do nothing and get the same sort of correspondence on the Forum each time a new update is released. It's not my call but I know which is the most user-friendly option for those who use SimSig for enjoyment and are not into the technicalities of computers.

Tempest Malice in post 96288 said:

The trouble is that you can't add any message to the old loaders telling their users to redownload to get the update as their loader has no feature to display such a message, so their installation would have be updated to give such a message, at which point the user already has the up to date loader which can update itself and there is no longer (much) problem.

In which case rather than relying on the software on the user's machine, is there any option to have code on the server allowing it to read back from the Check for Updates log displayed on the user's machine. The server could then advise from the centre if there is a failure that the user should download and re-install.