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| Birmingham New Street 23/08/2010 at 22:39 #1663 | |
bse35
21 posts |
Hi all, I read on another forum that a Birmingham New Street sim is being made, can anyone confirm this? Also how soon will it be ready? Thanks in advance. Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 23/08/2010 at 22:39 #10930 | |
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bse35
21 posts |
Hi all, I read on another forum that a Birmingham New Street sim is being made, can anyone confirm this? Also how soon will it be ready? Thanks in advance. Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 23/08/2010 at 22:49 #10931 | |
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ipswich
247 posts |
bse it will be ready whens it ready every question asked to the devlopers is wasting precious time on devloping new sims
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| Birmingham New Street 24/08/2010 at 00:07 #10934 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
bse35, as SimSig is created by volunteer developers in their spare time, no kind of deadlines are set for any SimSig product. Work, Family and other Real Life projects commonly get in the way of developing simulations. And, as Ipswich says, any time a developer has to come on the forum to explain this, a little time that could have been used on developing has been 'wasted' on the forum. I shall now type to most common phrase ever seen on this forum... It will be ready when it's ready! Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 24/08/2010 at 01:52 #10937 | |
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mfcooper
707 posts |
Aaron, as I said above, SimSig makes no deadlines for its developers, as SimSig is not as important as Real Life. If something happens in a developer's personal life, they may have to stop all SimSig work for a period of time. If I were a developer, I would not want to inform you and every SimSig user of the details of any incidents that may cause this kind of action. In addition to this, the development of a SimSig simulation takes many hours of dedicated work to get the accuracy that the team strive for and the users demand. If deadlines were set, there would be much disappointment when they were not met due to Real Life (Family/Work/etc) commitments, or a half-finished product with lots of bugs were released, prompting more replies (probably many from you) complaining about the poor quality of the product on offer. For all of these reasons and more, including discussions had when you were on this Forum as 'Keiran', no deadlines are given, no dates are announced, and virtually every other user is willing to accept the status quo.
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| Birmingham New Street 24/08/2010 at 02:38 #10939 | |
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UKTrainMan
1803 posts |
Aaron said:Time spent communicating in the forum by Geoff and his team is not time wasted.It could potentially take up to 10 minutes to write out an update on the progress of a simulation in development and that time could be spent working on the actual simulation, instead of answering multiple questions from people about the simulation which is in the development stage(s) anyway. I note that I have honestly never seen those who create trains or routes for the train diving simulation "BVE4" or "OpenBVE" asked the "how long until it is ready" sort of question - and I've been around on the forum(s) for long enough where that question would most likely be asked (if it was ever asked). Aaron said: "It'll be ready, when it's ready" - is poor communication.At least there is some level of communication. I note that the McSimSig Trio of simulations was kept very hush hush, so much so that I would wonder if the reason for this was to stop this sort of question of when it will be ready. At this rate, all future simulations will be kept quiet until they're suddenly released and that could potentially 'damage the community' as people may lose interest or think there are no new simulations in development at all. Why can people not just be patient and wait until the next simulation(s) is/are released!! Any views and / or opinions expressed by myself are from me personally and do not represent those of any company I either work for or am a consultant for. Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 24/08/2010 at 03:25 #10940 | |
jc92
3690 posts 
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i dont personally see the hurry to get new sims out. there are plenty of current sims and timetables out there to keep us occupied with allsorts of different scenarios and varieties. complaining wont produce a sim any faster and if it does then it will simply be bugged/imcomplete.
"We don't stop camborne wednesdays" Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 24/08/2010 at 08:54 #10944 | |
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caedave
142 posts |
As someone who has been selected to be a tester of new sims I concur. Time spent answering "When will it be ready" does cost development time. I'm all for the no prior information approach and don't think it will be detrimental. Will now return to check running of the 15th release of the one I'm currently testing. We will find all the bugs before it's released to the group. Dave M. Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 24/08/2010 at 11:15 #10950 | |
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NorthSig
27 posts |
Dave - perhaps you have wasted testing time in replying to this thread. I don't visit here or use Simsig as often as I did before as I use the real thing at work, but I'd like to support Aaron a bit as he seems to have no friends at the moment! Is it actually unreasonable to ask for a small status update of an already announced product? I don't believe it is, but anyone who ventures such questions seems to be immediately attacked by various members on this forum. A simple one line 'Things under test, coming along nicely' comment would be all that is required. The 'When will it be ready?' question is tiresome of course, but it will continue to be asked by people, despite requests for it not to be. Just accept this as a fact of life. And when responding to that question, please don't continue with the 'They/we do it for free' line, as that's also getting tedious as well. Taking Simsig from paid to free was a choice of the developer(s) after all .... There seems to be no room for much criticism of Simsig at the moment which I think is unhealthy regardless of whether the products are paid for or free. You have to be prepared to accept adverse criticism as well as the positive. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And this is (or was) an open forum .... Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 24/08/2010 at 20:24 #10987 | |
postal
5265 posts |
And how long before "Things under test, coming along nicely" becomes a default response and users of the Forum then make comment that this response is as lacking in informative communication as "It'll be ready when it's ready". I think that the Forum is gradually descending towards a confrontational level because the people that run the Forum have actually tried to be open with the readers - for example, everyone who reads the Forum will now know that a Birmingham New Street sim is a probability rather than a possibility. Had various bits of information about the New Street sim not been posted, then no one would have been any the wiser and there wouldn't be the continual badgering about the state of readiness. Clearly we have two irreconcilable objectives here, so if we wish to move on from the current unsatisfactory situation we are either going to have to accept a news blackout on all sims under development or accept the continual round of "when will it be ready" questions. Commercial enterprises more normally work to the first rather than the second way of working, so it is unfair to make critical comments about the developer(s) making the choice to go from a commercial to a voluntary operation and then taking them to task when they already have a more open attitude to giving out information than commercial counterparts. You pays your money and you takes your choice with that one, but I would sooner not read the tedious question rather than complain about the tedious response. Still, each to their own. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 24/08/2010 at 22:36 #10990 | |
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officer dibble
409 posts |
I for one (and I am not a developer) have become tired of the "when when when" posts! Please allow the development team to do their job (when they have time & are not busy with their own lives!), when a sim is ready to a satisfactory standard it will be made available for the masses to have a go at, why must we continually bother them with these enquiries? To the developers & makers of sims, you have my backing, thanks for all your hard work, tis much appreciated ;-) The reply "when its ready, is ready" is crystal clear to me. When in doubt - Contingency plan 2A. Someone didn't buy the milk - 2A. Someone sneezed at Swansea - 2A. A driver complains the cab is too cold - 2A. Unable to operate a HEx service 4 vice 8 - 2A. Points failure at Ipswich - 2A. Landslip at Pitlochry - 2A Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 13:08 #11082 | |
Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
UKTrainMan said:Aaron said:I first told my Edinburgh testers that the Sim was about ready for release over a year before it actually was because things just kept turning up that needed fixed. So giving updates might not be worth the effort as they maybe wrong within minutes of posting- then there will be more complaints about writing misleading posts.Time spent communicating in the forum by Geoff and his team is not time wasted. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 15:04 #11084 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
Post deleted - it's not worth the aggravation. JG “In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 15:30 #11085 | |
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AndyG
1842 posts |
It's an open forum, but it's not a requirement to respond, so I won't - life's too short.
I can only help one person a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look too good either. Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 15:37 #11086 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
I think we are priviledged that Geoff has set up a forum for our use, however, at the rate we are going I can see the facility being withdrawn. If that happens then the only way you will get to know what sims are coming is when they are released on the website, a bit like Siam! I know Siam has a forum too, but you never see people asking Tim when a sim is going to be ready... or is it because you have to pay for them? Time to grow up I feel before we loose the luxury of having a forum and hearing about what's being developed!
Noisynoel Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 15:57 #11087 | |
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IrishDave
51 posts |
Whether or not you regard Simsig as a free and open forum depends on how you define freedom and openness. In real life we are not free to do anything we like; we are only free to do what we like *as long as* it does not impinge on anyone else's freedom to do what they like. In the context of Simsig, do you really think we should have free reign to criticise the hard work of others? Of course, constructively pointing out things which could be improved is to be welcomed, but I do not see how asking questions which could be construed as criticising how long building a sim takes as being either helpful or useful to anyone. What's more, in my view answering such queries and comments get in the way of the developers actually building sims; at least one developer did previously try and answer all questions honestly, but he found he was spending more time answering those kinds of questions than actually developing the sim, thus making it later and later for everyone. Such "friendly acts" to the community actually end up delaying *everyone's* enjoyment of the sims; it is to the community's benefit to be left in the dark, even if that seems counterintuitive. In other words, more information could be provided, but the development team have taken the decision that doing so isn't worth the effort, since it delays everyone and only leads to more questions. At the end of the day, it was Geoff's generous decision to release Simsig free of charge and create the forum that makes all this possible; he is entirely within his rights to remove it, which would be a much greater loss to the community than not knowing what might be released next. --Dave McCormick Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 18:35 #11092 | |
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postal
5265 posts |
Edit - posting deleted.
“In life, there is always someone out there, who won’t like you, for whatever reason, don’t let the insecurities in their lives affect yours.” – Rashida Rowe Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 18:37 #11093 | |
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JDC
25 posts |
This is getting really tedious.can Aaron not take a hint and shut up. The sims will be ready when they are ready. end of story.
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| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 18:54 #11094 | |
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lpeters
160 posts |
Aaron; if you think it is so easy to do all of this; perhaps you should create AaronSig and show the world how easy it is. If you can't fo that, shut up or put up. I would ask that someone locks this to be honest.
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| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 18:59 #11095 | |
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ipswich
247 posts |
i agree with luke about this needs locking
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| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 19:16 #11096 | |
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IrishDave
51 posts |
Aaron said:The latest responses are just not good enough. Noiseynoel is condescending. "Time to grow up" - what sort of reply is that to anyone. Plus the usual threats that sims/forum will be withdrawn - in order to subdue people.Firstly, I did not threaten to remove anything, and I do not have the power to remove anything anyway. I merely stated a fact. In what way are the responses not good enough? They represent the views of the vast majority of people on this forum. If you don't like that, then you're welcome to leave and stop asking questions that the rest of us accept will not be answered. Do I like the fact that there isn't much information on when various sims will be released? No. I'm as eager as you are to play new sims, and to write timetables for them. Unlike you, however, I accept the fact that it takes a huge amount of work to release a sim, and with the developers doing this in their spare time I realise that that work is going to take a long time. What's more, through testing I know that I'm doing my bit to help the developers get their simulations released in due course, and I've also learned just how much there is to making a simulation. If you would like sims to be released faster, why don't you apply to become a tester at the next opportunity, Aaron? Aaron said: The problem continues to be this:Only you seem to regard this as a problem; I, for one, accept this as a fact of life. Aaron said: No information is given out - people ask questions - people are given dismissive replies. The cycle continues. How exactly can that be described as friendly or open?I don't believe any of the replies to this thread have been particularly unfriendly or dismissive; indeed, it's usually a good friend who tells you what you should know but don't want to hear. As for openness, no-one said it was "open", and, for the reasons I outlined above, none of the developers want it to be "open". Personally, I think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Can't we just enjoy the fact there are so many good simulations already released, and get on with playing them, and not worry about when the "next one" might happen to come along? Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 19:42 #11098 | |
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Tallington
254 posts |
Just for once I disagree with the earlier post to lock this thread. Let's leave this one live and open so that everyone can see how the user 'Aaron' is continuing to be an absolute pain both in public and in multiple private messages behind the scenes to many of us. He was banned and removed under his real name of Kieran for doing exactly the same thing but re-registered (against the rules) as Aaron to get round it (as if we wouldn't notice)! Once again his manner and attitude is showing through and spoiling the camaraderie that we normally hope for on the forum. Many of us behind the scenes have been extremely demoralized by this, which has undoubtedly delayed productivity and stifled creativity. So rather than locking this thread I would rather see the implied threat in the rules and regulations that we all sign up to, be exercised again by Geoff, and Aaron's posting privilege be withdrawn. The relevant sections in the rules are repeated here... Membership SimSig is not a membership organisation and registration for the Forum conveys no rights or privileges beyond the ability to post to the forum. Code of Conduct Note that by registering with SimSig, you agree to adhere to the SimSig Code of Conduct. Users who violate the Code of Conduct or otherwise behave in an unacceptable manner may be temporarily, or even permanently suspended from posting on any of the forums. 12) Registering using more than one username is not permitted. Just my opinion, but the rules are there for everyone to read... Unfortunately, I may be guilty of 'something' by repeating this, so I will apologise in advance... Ken Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 28/08/2010 at 20:19 #11099 | |
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GoodbyeMrFish
148 posts |
i dont post much here, but would like to add my thoughts. Down to the developers genorosity sim sig is free, and for me not earning very much would like to see it stay this way. As i love all the sims, and if they wernt free i wouldent be able to get so much enjoyment out of them. when news of new sims that are in production do the rounds, i look forward to them, no matter how long they take to get released, i hate it when people pester the developers about release dates, at the end of the day i would rather have a sim with minimal amount of bugs than a rushed sim with many. i do look for latest info on the new sims, but if the news isnt there it doesnt bother me. i was glad when geoff posted a screen shot of new street to whet peoples apetites. the danger of people pestering, is that, the developers them selves will hold back any news about any new sims in develpment which imo is a shame, because any news is good news to create a buzz about a particular sim, but if they choose not to put any info out in the public domain i can understand why. i would be lieing if i said i didnt care about a release date because i do look forward to any new sim. but if im told ready when its ready then fair enough. the people who make the sims work hard to get them ready, and as a beta tester on cambridge (altho i dint find any bugs, people beat me to it because i dont have alot of free time) but being part of it and seeing the emails you get to appriciate the hard work involved with every new build. the develpers want to release a realistic and stable product, at the end of the day its what they are working hard for. if you rush them your likely not to get a realistic and stablle product. thats if theyre not put off developing a new sim at all. regards richard Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 30/08/2010 at 08:08 #11145 | |
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Peter Bennet
5402 posts |
Can I just point out that with the exception of posting 12 (mine) all other comments have been by other forum members and not developers/Geoff. Personally I'm not going to provide any information on what I'm working on that is not already officially in the public domain- but I have from time to time given as good an update as I can on where I am at with the ones you know I'm working on. Neither am I going to comment on Sims that I'm not the developer of. Believe it or not I don't know much about what others are working on or their personal circumstances and as we don't have any formal reporting system to Geoff he is largely in unaware as to where we are at at any given time so could not really comment either even if he wanted to. And before you ask; there is no reason why he needs to be updated regularly due the the nature of the beast- Developers do the Sims because they want to not because Geoff is directing development and if they shelve things indefinitely that is their choice. Even if we did know that (say) Fred has shelved Isle of Wight for personal reasons I don't think it for us to publicise that fact- it'd be up to Fred. Peter I identify as half man half biscuit - crumbs! Log in to reply |
| Birmingham New Street 30/08/2010 at 08:15 #11146 | |
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Noisynoel
989 posts |
Aaron said:- who does SimSig serve?I really feel I ought to comment about this statement, however, common decency prevails so I will refrain! Noisynoel Log in to reply |