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| MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 16/07/2011 at 11:12 #17795 | |
zerofire
21 posts |
I think making a sim of the MBTA subway portion would be particularly beneficial single or double panel. The subway is divided into 4 lines (Green, Red, Blue, and Orange) with several sub lines on the Green Line(A-E). The red line also has two terminus's for southbound trains plus the Mattapan line. It is possible to get a track layout map vary easily on the net and for signals/track circuits it might be possible to file a FOIA request or I can just go riding on my free time. Green Line: Type: Light Rail Signaling: Advisory Wayside[No Protection](Collision Protection in Testing) Routing and Detection: Automatic Vehicle Identification (AVI) Detectors Electrification: Overhead Catenary Train Length: 1-3 Cars(Each car of type AB) Running Environment: Elevated, Median, Grade Seperated, Underground, Street Running A(defunct): Northbound: Park St, Southbound: Watertown B: Northbound: Government Center, Southbound: Boston Collage C: Northbound: North Station, Southbound: Cleveland Circle D: Northbound: Government Center, Southbound: Riverside, College Ave(Planned Extension) E: Northbound: Lechmere, Southbound: Heath St, Arborway(defunct), Union Square(Planned Extension) Other termini exist for different times. Blue Line: Type: Heavy Rail Signaling: Wayside with Timing Signals Routing and Detection: Electrification: Overhead Catenary(Northbound from Airport), Third Rail(Southbound from Airport) Train Length: 6 Cars (48ft Each) Running Environment: At Grade, Grade Separated, Underground Southbound: Bowdoin, Charles/MGH(Planned Extension), Northbound: Wonderland, Lynn(Unknown Station/Planned Extension) Orange Line: Type: Heavy Rail Signaling: ATO Reduced Wayside with ATO Cab Signaling Routing and Detection: Automatic Train Operation (ATO) Electrification: Third Rail Train Length: 4 or 6 Cars (65ft Each) Running Environment: Grade Seperated, Underground Southbound: Forest Hills, Northbound: Oak Grove Red Line: Type: Heavy Rail Signaling: Wayside with ATO Cab Signaling Routing and Detection: Automatic Train Operation (ATO) Electrification: Third Rail Train Length: 6 Cars (69ft,2.5in Each) Running Environment: Grade Seperated, Underground Southbound: Ashmont, Braintree, Northbound: Alewife Ashmont-Mattapan High Speed Line Type: Trolley Signaling: Wayside Routing and Detection: Electrification: Overhead Catenary Train Length: 1 Car (69ft,2.5in Each) Running Environment: At Grade Southbound: Mattapan, Northbound: Ashmont It is possible to get the track layout from the MBTA 2009 Bluebook located here: http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/documents/Bluebook%202009.pdf Last edited: 16/07/2011 at 11:47 by zerofire Log in to reply |
| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 16/07/2011 at 15:00 #17816 | |
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nezza
102 posts |
and all this info and you not thought about making the sim yourself
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| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 16/07/2011 at 20:18 #17844 | |
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zerofire
21 posts |
I actually did think of making it myself but I am not a developer yet. I would create it myself if I had some information on how to make one. The MBTA already uses computer panels to track all of their trains at 45 High St. although I don't know the colors for those.
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| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 16/07/2011 at 21:21 #17850 | |
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afro09
167 posts |
I'm not sure how much support there will be for an american sim but as far as I am aware Geoff and the developers are working on a number of new UK sims as well as refreshes to existing sims, so i think it is safe to say these sims been worked on before other sims are started. Although that been said there is a quiet large mix of different nationalities now using SimSig so maybe if one of developers was able to spend a bit of time teaching a few different people to develop sims then maybe we could have UK sims as SimSig officiall sim and international sims as user contributed sims. With the information Zero has, he could obtain the rest of the information needed and develop this boston sim. I personally have the signalling and track circuit diagrams for Irelands Suburban CTC and for The Roslare line cabin (Greystones), I also have the current working TTS for the whole country and unit allocations for the whole country so if I knew haw to write a sim, and a TT afterwards i could donate probably the whole irish rail network over time. I also know we have Aussie's, noweigien, dutch and new zealanders in our commuity!!
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| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 16/07/2011 at 21:30 #17852 | |
GeoffM
6376 posts |
It's a fascinating subway, I'll give you that!I think it must have been nearly 10 years ago I was there on a cross country train (Amtrak) trip from LA to Boston via San Antonio, Fort Worth, Dallas, Chicago, New York, and Boston.
SimSig Boss Log in to reply |
| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 16/07/2011 at 23:20 #17864 | |
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ricky29
19 posts |
Excellent find there. The system is amazing with all of the aspects of the network. It even has a Dial-a-Ride style accessible service for the disabled people that can't use normal public transport just like we have here in London. Great track plans and diagrams too. Thank you so much for the link. Richard Log in to reply |
| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 17/07/2011 at 08:34 #17876 | |
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zerofire
21 posts |
I also have information on the special signals (how to route) for the Green, Orange, Blue, and Mattapan lines. I need to find out if the Red line has regular signals or special ones since it was converted to ATO. I understand that most if not all of the lines available for Simsig are British ones, and I personally like some like King's Cross, but when you constantly play the same sim over and over it gets boring. This is especially true if a line goes past your house. Having access to another countries rail system can make it more fun and provide more diversification. Last edited: 17/07/2011 at 08:45 by zerofire Log in to reply |
| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 21/07/2011 at 12:48 #18086 | |
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clive
2789 posts |
If anyone can get (legitimately) sufficient information to allow a sim to be built, then a developer may be interested. I'd certainly be interested in doing the Green Line. But "sufficient information" is quite a lot - it includes the exact locations of signals, points, and track circuit boundaries, aspect controls, speed limits, and preferably gradients. There are already a fair number of developers, but training new ones is not a simple or quick matter. If someone wanted to become a developer, they'd need to persuade Geoff that they have the right level of both railway and programming technical knowledge to be able to do so. Log in to reply |
| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 21/07/2011 at 19:31 #18111 | |
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zerofire
21 posts |
I would develop this idea if I was to become a developer. I know a lot about United States railway operating procedure and if I don't I research. I am also studying to be a Software Engineer aka Programmer. Also the courses are not generic university or collage ones. They are accelerated institute of technology ones. Polytechnic institutes are another name for them.
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| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 19/08/2011 at 00:15 #19581 | |
dmaze
88 posts |
Of the T rapid transit lines, the Green Line is probably the most interesting (and would feel most like Wembley Suburban to run). In reality the surface parts of the B, C, and E lines are unsignalled, and the interesting subway junctions are controlled by the trains themselves. Last I knew the command center didn't actually know the locations of individual cars on the Green Line either. On the other lines the command center has much better information, but aside from the terminals and yards the Blue and Orange Lines have no switching at all, though the Red Line at least has the junction of the Ashmont and Braintree lines north of JFK/UMass station. Red and Orange lines are (today) fully cab-signalled with only two-aspect wayside signals at interlockings; Blue and Green lines have three-aspect wayside signals throughout. The subway lines don't physically intersect at all, and for the most part equipment from one line can't run on another, so any potential simulation would probably cover only one of the lines. I'd be excited to run either half of the Boston commuter rail network, and it seems closer to "normal" SimSig. South Station traffic would share with CSX freight and high-speed Amtrak service to Providence and beyond. North Station doesn't have a whole lot of freight today, except for the Pan Am service Fitchburg-Ayer-Lowell-Lawrence-Haverhill; I don't know whether the MBTA or PAR dispatches the Ayer-Chelmsford-Lowell-Lawrence segments that don't also have passenger service. (If you go to North Station, the person in the information booth also makes the station announcements, and has a dispatcher's display of the first two "screens" out to Boston Engine Terminal. In the past I've seen a similar display at South Station showing track occupancy out to Back Bay.) Log in to reply |
| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 19/08/2011 at 02:24 #19582 | |
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zerofire
21 posts |
The surface parts of the green line on the B, C, and E are signaled except that it's not exactly normal signaling. The MBTA's Advisory signals are horizontal bar(Red), narrowing vertical(Yellow), and vertical bar(Green). The signals are also tied into the local cities traffic signals. As for the junctions they are not controlled by the trains. The junctions are controlled by automated systems that use the trains destination as input. So if a engineer sets the trains signs to E he will be forced down the E route regardless of him actually wanting to run to Cleveland Circle(C). There are also detectors placed randomly in key sections of the subway that detect trains. This information is used for tracking. While the main control does not have tracking information the three sub-control centers have full track displays. I was pretty sure the red line and orange line north of North Station used a hybrid of wayside and cab signaling but they might have removed the wayside portion. I would need to check. The interlocking should be four aspect not two although there might be two lamps in one enclosure. This would need to be checked.The blue line has mostly three aspect signals but a select few are four aspect signals with timing. The timing signals control the speed through the section and tell the engineer that he has to be below a certain speed for the next signal to clear. The Green line can have up to five aspects with the normal ones having three. Some signals can display Yellow over Yellow and Red over Red so they need the extra aspects.There are some very specific sections that allow interaction and it is possible to run some equipment on other lines. For example you can take a Blue Line train and run it on the Red line the catch is that you would have to tell the passengers to mind the gap at every station so they don't forget there is several feet between the car and the platform. The MBCR is a separate section and dispatching is run by Amtrak or CSX depending on who put down the rail. Most likely the MBCR's stuff will be split up and the Amtrak section would come out as the North NEC(New Haven to South Station). Log in to reply |
| Re: MBTA Subway/Boston, MA USA 21/08/2011 at 11:38 #19711 | |
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dmaze
88 posts |
The signals on the surface parts of the Green Line are just traffic lights; I don't think there's any track occupancy detectors. The Haymarket-North Orange Line "extension" got resignalled a couple of years ago in a very very long project and it's now fully cab signalled. (Before this there was a switch in the cab that disabled the cab signals that operators would turn on at Haymarket northbound and turn off at State southbound.) From a simulation point of view cab vs. wayside signals shouldn't matter much, though. The other interesting thing with a T rapid transit setup would be interesting scenarios/timetables you could write; for instance, trying to have extra trains at Kenmore or North Station for a sporting event, or (for the Orange Line) replicating the single-track evening Haymarket-Sullivan operation that was happening while they were doing the resignaling work. Log in to reply |