Shortcut keys

One of the most annoying features of a messagebox can be that many programmers rely on the user to close it, instead of making it disappear spontaneously after a set time.

On the contrary, stuff that disappears before you've had time to read it is really annoying.

Try right clicking on the signal with your mouse.

ive started working an a quick 1 hour timetable for royston which features a run round, a through train, a stopping train and a splitting train which forms two new services.

im now working on a walkthrough for it going right back to basics including such basic details as: equals stopping time / equals passing time. hopefully it will be foolproof and comprehensive, I just need some time to finish it

Assuming you hadn't already thought of this....Can you add certain set up items as well? Just the little things we all take or granted such as unchecking the right click cancels route box and showing shunt signals etc etc

That only confirms that the signal I right-clicked is the one with the number I'm looking for. For example, when the train timetable says its next stop is at a particular signal, I've wasted a lot of time right-clicking all the nearest signals to find the right one, then given it up and gone back to the map (not always matching the current version of the sim, either). Shouldn't have to do that. Surely there must be a way to fit signal numbers into the display. If it makes the display too cluttered (PC Rail's sim is a good example of this), it could be toggled on/off using a function key. (Similarly, block lengths.)

only you DON'T want to have to cancel the popup yourself.

Jump to Train or Jump to Signal command

What's not made clear IMO are the pros and cons of each setting in Options.

So the current practise of not displaying signal numbers in the simulation encourages the user to learn the area.

In addition, as timetables show the locations a train will visit in order, it can be relatively easy to narrow-down the rough position of a signal based on its preceding and following locations.

Jump to Train or Jump to Signal command

This is available in paged sims, go to menu>Train Describer>Find and type the description in. The sim will then jump to the page the train is on. Note this will only work if the train has the correct description attached. Also, in the F2 list, the look up what's in the trains 'current/previous location' entry- this should narrow it down.

mfcooper wrote

Quote:

So the current practise of not displaying signal numbers in the simulation encourages the user to learn the area.

I take this to mean that although in real life, signal numbers may or may not be displayed, depending on who wrote the software for the particular panel, SimSig has deliberately omitted signal numbers as an inducement for users to learn their areas? How very interesting.

mfcooper wrote

Quote:

So the current practise of not displaying signal numbers in the simulation encourages the user to learn the area.

I take this to mean that although in real life, signal numbers may or may not be displayed, depending on who wrote the software for the particular panel, SimSig has deliberately omitted signal numbers as an inducement for users to learn their areas? How very interesting.

mfcooper wrote

Quote:

So the current practise of not displaying signal numbers in the simulation encourages the user to learn the area.

I take this to mean that although in real life, signal numbers may or may not be displayed, depending on who wrote the software for the particular panel, SimSig has deliberately omitted signal numbers as an inducement for users to learn their areas? How very interesting.

" said:

" said:

What's not made clear IMO are the pros and cons of each setting in Options.

This would be difficult to write- diffrent people prefer diffrent configurations. All the options are fairly clearly explained, it's up to the user to find their own preffered way of working.

Indeed. Some are options that reflect different standards over the years - for example, point positions were never shown on overviews prior to somewhere in the mid-2000s, but now they are. Point locking is never shown in the UK but it is abroad. The latter is a useful debugging tool and it made sense to make it available to runtime users. Ultimately it's up to you. That's why they're called options.

" said:

mfcooper wrote

Quote:

So the current practise of not displaying signal numbers in the simulation encourages the user to learn the area.

I take this to mean that although in real life, signal numbers may or may not be displayed, depending on who wrote the software for the particular panel, SimSig has deliberately omitted signal numbers as an inducement for users to learn their areas? How very interesting.

No, this is your skepticism creeping in again. In the real world, the one you seem to have a problem with, signallers have to learn where all their signals are. They may have diagrams, they may have drawings, but ultimately if a driver calls in and says "oi, why am I at signal XYZ", the signaller has to know - or search - to find where that signal is. I can guarantee you that each signaller does not know where 100% of their signals are, but have the brainpower to logically narrow it down in the ways that have already been presented to you.

" said:

[quote="Steamer" post=23063]Jump to Train or Jump to Signal command

This is available in paged sims, go to menu>Train Describer>Find and type the description in. The sim will then jump to the page the train is on. Note this will only work if the train has the correct description attached. Also, in the F2 list, the look up what's in the trains 'current/previous location' entry- this should narrow it down.

Thanks for the tip, didn't know that. It would save heaps of time to be able to do the same in scrolling sims. Instead of typing in the TD, the user should be able to select the train from the Train List, R-click it and select Go to Train.

" said:

mfcooper wrote

Quote:

So the current practise of not displaying signal numbers in the simulation encourages the user to learn the area.

I take this to mean that although in real life, signal numbers may or may not be displayed, depending on who wrote the software for the particular panel, SimSig has deliberately omitted signal numbers as an inducement for users to learn their areas? How very interesting.

No, this is your skepticism creeping in again. In the real world, the one you seem to have a problem with, signallers have to learn where all their signals are. They may have diagrams, they may have drawings, but ultimately if a driver calls in and says "oi, why am I at signal XYZ", the signaller has to know - or search - to find where that signal is. I can guarantee you that each signaller does not know where 100% of their signals are, but have the brainpower to logically narrow it down in the ways that have already been presented to you.

mfcooper wrote

[quote]So the current practise of not displaying signal numbers in the simulation encourages the user to learn the area.

In the IECC system which Simsig simulates, signal, points and track circuit numbers are optional on the overview screens (i.e. the signaller can hide or display these individually as he wishes)

Quote:

In the IECC system which Simsig simulates, signal, points and track circuit numbers are optional on the overview screens (i.e. the signaller can hide or display these individually as he wishes)

Now that's more like it! I could certainly use such an optional display, particularly while learning a sim.

Thanks Geoff. Detail views - that's great. If I understand you correctly, a detail view is simply an overview where for example signal IDs are toggled on (enabled). Perfect. To have all views showing simultaneously on one screen would overdo it.

That would get around wasting time guessing which signal has a particular number and then r-clicking it to confirm it.

Roll on, detail views. :)

I'd assume they would also switch sims more often than signalmen are posted to different stations. That's when really integrated display software would help the most.

I take this to mean that although in real life, signal numbers may or may not be displayed, depending on who wrote the software for the particular panel, SimSig has deliberately omitted signal numbers as an inducement for users to learn their areas? How very interesting.

Signalmen invariably learn their area to a very high degree of detail. To the point that, in a manual box, you don't need to look for the lever numbers as you set routes
[...]
It can be treacherous, of course; where adjacent levers control successive signals there's a risk that you put the wrong one back and the approaching driver finds a red being dropped on him

" said:

Signalmen invariably learn their area to a very high degree of detail. To the point that, in a manual box, you don't need to look for the lever numbers as you set routes
[...]
It can be treacherous, of course; where adjacent levers control successive signals there's a risk that you put the wrong one back and the approaching driver finds a red being dropped on him

Or worse. Look at the fatal collision at Hull Paragon, which happened because one of the signalman pulled the lever adjacent to the correct one when setting up a route in a hurry.

The main reason for omitting signal numbers is that they would clutter the screen too much. It would be practical though tedious to add them, perhaps with a button to hide them, if there was room. But in many simulations there just isn't that space.

(Personally I don't like the idea of adding detail screens to SimSig, but that's just an opinion.)

For those interested, a scan of the original typescript report of the Hull Paragon accident produced by Major Pringle is available online.

It is interesting to see the conventions and accuracies that were acceptable in those days, for example "the leading bogie wheels of the engine would be 219 feet 2 1/4 inches' beyond the signal bridge, and 37 feet 9 3/4 inches from the nearest, (east) end of the locking bar at 95 points". The bobby pulled the lever next to the lever he thought he was pulling and reversed 95 points while the loco covered that 37 feet 9 3/4 inches.

" said:

Quote:

In the IECC system which Simsig simulates, signal, points and track circuit numbers are optional on the overview screens (i.e. the signaller can hide or display these individually as he wishes)

Now that's more like it! I could certainly use such an optional display, particularly while learning a sim.

Unfortunately that statement is wrong. Westcad, IECC, and MCS have never showed signal IDs, points IDs, or track IDs on overviews. They're on the detail views where each can be shown or hidden per screen.